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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Something interesting about Duralite Regulators
02-07-2008 04:54 PM  10 years agoPost 61
Yug

rrMaster

UK. Herts

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Don't need to wrap it foam, just stick it down with a pad and put a tiewrap round it with another bit of pad between the tiewrap and regulator so that the vibes aren't transmitted from the tiewrap to the regulator.

Vegetable rights and Peace

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02-07-2008 04:58 PM  10 years agoPost 62
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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Finally some logic here. I see you guys get all upset about 80C and how it's "hot to the touch" without realizing the above information.
thats just it. if the temps on the heat sink is at 80C, how much hotter do you think it is at the chip? i would have measured the internal temp of the chip if it were possible.

but at 80C, on the HEAT SINK, which will be lower then the chip the begin with, pulling a mear 2 amps, in a cool room....

yet with all those factors you still dont think i should be concerned.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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02-07-2008 05:35 PM  10 years agoPost 63
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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80ºC (176ºF) is just too much on any heat sink.

Pushing 2 amps at 5.4V from a 2S LiPo disipates 4W in a linear regulator.

Using a max operating temp of 125ºC and a thermal resistance of 10ºC/W (8ºC/W for the heat sink and 2ºC/W for junction to case of the regulator), the junction temperature will be at 120ºC, getting too close to the limit of 125ºC

Wrap it in foam and that 10ºC/W goes up and just makes things worse.

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02-07-2008 05:44 PM  10 years agoPost 64
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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or try it on a nice hot day.

i did this in my cold basement. what about sitting under a canopy on a 30-40C day?

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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02-07-2008 08:30 PM  10 years agoPost 65
helimatt

rrElite Veteran

Lafayette, IN

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We need to begin pushing heli designs as a system- see how we now have a fan/shroud and engine overheating is a non-issue? We could incorporate into the airframe design a circuit of cooling for the regulator.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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02-07-2008 08:49 PM  10 years agoPost 66
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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a simple 1" electric fan would be enough to provide decent air circulation around the heat sink, and it would be simple enough to hook up. the question is...is it needed? it would be nice if someone who had the tools could take in flight temperature recordings with the regulator on different areas of the helicopter. i cant imagine that with someone doing 3D the air would not be circulating inside the canopy.

i already know these things cook away on the ground. but i have no idea how much air circulation there is around the regualtor. i guess it also depends on your style of flying.

i myself spend a LOT of time flying backwards and inverted. but somene who does just FF or hovering wont have the circulation...and at the same time they wont be pulling higher amps in those conditions..

too many variables...

if i had an eagle tree system i could use to make the recordings i would.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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02-07-2008 09:06 PM  10 years agoPost 67
helimatt

rrElite Veteran

Lafayette, IN

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But those recordings would be a sample only of that particular installation, that regulator, that style of flying, on that helicopter, with those electronics. I agree it would be very interesting info- do several flights with mostly hovering, then with 3D, and again with the regulator in different orientations.

Take the variability out of it by providing a dedicated location for the regulator, with ducting from the engine fan, or in the case of electric models, perhaps a small auxillary fan (maybe the aux fan is more efficient overall anyway, but I detest getting more complex with more components).

Just thinking out loud.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.

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02-07-2008 10:01 PM  10 years agoPost 68
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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The real answer is a good switching regulator.
A good design will NOT interfere with other electronics.

Unless you don't mind just dumping 30% of your battery energy over board as heat.

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02-07-2008 10:07 PM  10 years agoPost 69
Bad Karma

rrVeteran

UK

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Damn thats probably the reason I had that crash a few years back, I had thre 6v regulator, and the heli started getting sluggish on the servos, and I couldnt pull it out at the bottom of a loop.

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02-07-2008 10:37 PM  10 years agoPost 70
Ken Filloon

rrVeteran

Highland, Michigan

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It seems the New High current regulator is the same as the old with larger GA wire and deans connector.
Still 7.5 amps.
This does not make any sense?

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02-07-2008 11:05 PM  10 years agoPost 71
stanc

rrKey Veteran

Conroe, TX

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The real answer is a good switching regulator.
A good design will NOT interfere with other electronics.

Unless you don't mind just dumping 30% of your battery energy over board as heat.
AirWolfRC is right in what he said above. Why worry about the linear regulators heating up, when all you have to do is buy a switching regulator or UBEC that is a switching regulator. The koolflight UBEC is $40.00, that can't be much different than the Duralite regulator and your battery will give you more flights with the UBEC than the linear regulator.

Stan

Stan
2- Logo 500
Ion X2
eAvro90

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02-07-2008 11:47 PM  10 years agoPost 72
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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Airwolf
do you think it would be difficult to buy a good chip and simply swap it with the crap one already on the regulator?

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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02-07-2008 11:50 PM  10 years agoPost 73
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Yes, it would be difficult,
because regulators are designed around a specific chip.

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02-07-2008 11:57 PM  10 years agoPost 74
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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hmm....thats crap...i was looking for an easy way out, just solder on a new regulator, lol.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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02-08-2008 12:19 AM  10 years agoPost 75
Billebob

rrVeteran

Tim-buck-2

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yikes on the SG Reactor!! That's supposed to be top shelf stuff and I fly with a buddy who has one on his GSR. I'd hate to see that go down due to an electrical failure.
I don't think you have anything to worry about. The Reactor is a solid helicopter product capable of powering any servo set presently on the market today. Many people screw stuff up elsewhere only to blame something else. Usually they lack technical troubleshooting skills. Sometimes people complain with hear say, do not own a product, nor have they actually worked a specific electrical snag.

I know Scott and if you had a problem with his product he'd rectify it. If you had a problem elsewhere in your system that caused his product to over heat he'd also help and be sincerely interested in your satisfaction. All the reactors I've used run pretty cool, always possible to hold the heat sink after a hard flight. Then again I tend not to short things out.
They call it switching regulator because that regulator has the possibility to attach a switch to it
That supports my theory exactly!

BB

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02-08-2008 12:26 AM  10 years agoPost 76
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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funny...he doesn't seem to help out any of us local guys very much...

what does it tell you when there are dozens of local heli pilots, most of us, including me started off with JR, and being brain washed into thinking JR was the way to go. then getting shafted. and now no one here locally flys their/his products.

im sure its a different story when he is traveling.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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02-08-2008 05:08 AM  10 years agoPost 77
The Dude II

rrVeteran

IN - USA

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Here's some data:

Fromeco Arizona regulator set to 5.9VDC output
2600mAh Li-Ion
Battery No-Load: 7.6VDC
ambient temp: 64F

current measured in series at battery side of regulator

Arizona Only: 40mA
add to this...
Futaba 138 8 ch PCM receiver: 20mA
add to this...
GV-1 + sensor: 29mA
add to this...
GY-611 with sensor and 9256: 78mA
add to this...
3x 9252 + 1 9602: 42mA

total idle load: 40+20+29+78+42 =209mA or .209A
Battery 7.55VDC at idle load

Stir the sticks no load in eccpm....1.42A to 1.77A

I refer to the force applied to the servo arm as "stiction"...the servo is trying to hold a position and I'm "forcing" it to rotate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiction

Stiction force applied to 1 9252 to point where arm begins to move: 1.92A @ 5.8VDC measured on the GV-1

Stiction force applied to 2 9252s to point where arms begin to move:
3.09A @ 5.7VDC measured on the GV-1.

Heat sink temp after this 2 minute test: 79F

Swapped 9252s for 9155s:
Idles was .208A

Stir the sticks no load in eccpm....1.64A to 2.02A

Stiction force applied to 1 9155 to point where my finger hurt and the servo didn't move: 2.50A @ 5.8VDC measured on the GV-1.

Stiction force applied to 2 9155s to point where neither arm moved and fingers really hurt: 4.10A @ 5.7VDC measured on the GV-1.

Heat Sink temp afterwards: 87F

Let things sit for 25 minutes.

Setup Triton with a 5-cell NICD battery and discharge rate of 2A.
Discharged through 36" 16ga lead.
Discharge voltage at Triton was 5.32 VDC @ 2Amp load
Voltage measured at Arizona Output was 5.98VDC
Input Voltage from battery 7.09VDC @ 2Amp load
Voltage drop across 36" lead (5.98- 5.32)= .66VDC

Measured Temp of Heat Sink after 10 minutes 118F.

Measured temp of the battery pack after test...76F.

~350 mAh depleted through the discharge after 10 minutes...about the average I pull on a 50-size heli after 9-11 minute hard aerobatic/3D
Flight.

In the peak of the heat back in August when outside temps were 88-92F...if I didn't "rest" the heli in the shade for 15 minutes between flights...the second flight of "back-to-back" flights would be "soft". I pulled the canopy and noticed the heat sink on the Arizona to be "warm" but not hot...the 9256 on the other hand WAS HOT!

lotta ins, lotta outs

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02-08-2008 05:22 AM  10 years agoPost 78
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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nice tests.

thanks for the info.

i plan on doing some tests on my VS-5S lipo controller when i get it back from repairs. (i shorted it).

i should have it back in a couple weeks.

but i have a feeling it will perform better then my other reg's. i was never able to get that thing over 40C on the heat sink. but this time i will try the 2amp load on the triton. if it goes well, i will push it to 3amps (max for my triton).

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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02-08-2008 09:51 AM  10 years agoPost 79
Raptor Rulezzz

rrKey Veteran

Rockanje, Zuid-Holland - The Netherlands

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I never had a problem with Duralite regulators.
I've been using this regulators for over 4 of years now with 0 problems on all of my setups. 90 size helicopters with all digitals, 50 size with all digitals, and at the moment I've still got a couple in business on a T-rex 600 w/all digitals and a R50 w/all digitals. And I do fly pretty agressively.

I can not comment on the rating, but I do know they I've never had a failure (I've had 6 of them for about 4 years) and they never felt "hot" after flying it. Initially I used them with the 4000mah liion packs, but later with the 2s1p LiPo packs.. both with great results.

Anyway, great regulators in my book. And YES I was already using them before I became a rep

Cheers,

Richard



Proud Member of Team QuickUK, Team Duralite & Sponsored by V-blades & 4rc.nl

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02-08-2008 03:39 PM  10 years agoPost 80
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Nice detailed test, thanks for the input.

Let's see, nominal input from the battery at 7.6V and 6.0V output from the Arizona regulator at 2 amps.
That's 1.6V x 2A = 3.2 watts.
Nice cushy job for that regulator with it's heat sink.

How come the LiPo battery is at only 7.6 volts, no load ?

Edit; you threw me off by including your 5 cell NiCd discharge test.

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Something interesting about Duralite Regulators
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