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HomeAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › BLS451 Glithing
03-05-2008 04:27 PM  10 years agoPost 41
Jay1

rrVeteran

Colorado Springs

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Air
Surface
Servos that match your request:
4.8V; Digital; Standard size; 100 oz-in or greater torque; Air;
I see a problem with this also. My friedn had a bird go down yesterday due to them servos and we had an eagle tree logger on it. It spiked to 6amps when the servos glitched and made the heli roll into a side way crash.

Could it be that the pots in there for the brushless control are very sensitive to the static electricity from the carbon frames,blades on tail and head? Everyone knows that carbon swinging in the air can generate some good static.

Jay
Sooner or later, Gravity will win!

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03-05-2008 05:06 PM  10 years agoPost 42
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Well we checked everything out. Looks like the 2 in 1 was dropping voltage down too low. The servo's all work fine. Don't know maybe they need a specific voltage to operate.
Still another reason to NOT use Align electronics on a $2000+ investment.

Krysta you said these are not precise enough for helis.... please expand on this as we have been recommended by others.... some even on the Futaba Team, to use them.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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03-05-2008 05:50 PM  10 years agoPost 43
lfalsetto

rrKey Veteran

COLORADO

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Now it could be static build up we are going to put ground wires on it this week.

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03-05-2008 06:15 PM  10 years agoPost 44
krysta

rrApprentice

Champaign IL

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Futaba's literature and their engineers will recommend this for cars, as for the page listing that you refer to, I will contact the Web people and have them lock this out of that site. But, if you will go to the servo site:
http://www.futaba-rc.com/servos/index.html

and click on Brushless servos:
http://www.futaba-rc.com/servos/brushlessservos.html

Then read down where it mentions that you can read the Technical Notes by clicking on the stock number, you will read that this is intended for cars.

http://www.gpdealera.com/cgi-bin/wg....pgm?I=FUTM0552

We try to make as much information available as we can to our customers regarding our products. Futaba always designs with specifics in mind and cannot control how they are eventually used.

Sincerely,
Krysta
Product Development & Support Specialist
Futaba Service Center USA

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03-05-2008 06:26 PM  10 years agoPost 45
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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Krysta,
Could you please expound upon, "they are not precise enough for the demands of heli flight."

Besides correcting your web page, it would seem you need to inform your team members of this information as well.

Thank you,
John

RR rules!

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03-05-2008 06:35 PM  10 years agoPost 46
Jay1

rrVeteran

Colorado Springs

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If this is the case then their Futaba representatives need to inform their distributers about this issue. Many of the vendors that we use and depend upon for our heli needs are selling this as a product that can be used for the cyclic control on our helis. I am sure they wouldnt lead us wrong if a Futaba rep informed our venders of this issue in the first place.

All in all I think Futaba is still at fault here and It is only fair that they admit to it and make this right.

Just my 2 cents.....

Jay
Sooner or later, Gravity will win!

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03-05-2008 07:22 PM  10 years agoPost 47
WhirlyBird500

rrApprentice

Rhode Island, USA

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Check out Futabas web site and search for a servo. All the BLS have been removed when you do a search for a servo of 100o or more.

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03-05-2008 07:32 PM  10 years agoPost 48
cscheli

rrNovice

chicago, il

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BLS451 Glitching
Jay hit the nail on the head, this is totally a Futaba mistake. If you go to the Futaba website they say the servo is good for air and surface. Also the retail packaging and manual says nothing about "surface use only". All the online retailers dealing specifically with aircraft and helicopters are selling these as aircraft and heli cyclic servos. Even the part number is the same as the previous brushed version, they just added BLS.

You can’t blame the support people for this because they don't have any control of production, marketing, or distributing, their just the ones responsible for dealing with all the production defects and angry customers. So we can't shoot the messenger, but what does it tell you when the warranty department starts telling the business that a particular servo is not working in a particular application.

My take on the situation is that Futaba released this servo as an all purpose servo only to find out they were having major issues. To try and back pedal out of it by saying latter that "ohh these servos are only good for surface use" is a dishonest comp-out.
That would be like Firestone trying to say "ohh those 4X4 tires that blew out on your SUV were really meant for a Volkswagen Beetle, you need to take it up with Ford for selling you those tires for your Expedition".

All this situation does is damage the Futaba brand and reputation and really hurts the retailers. I think the real culprit here is the distributors. The service shop is a cost center and there not making money off these things.
But the distributors can push them to there dealers and the dealers push them to us (until they get a firestorm of complaints, but then there stuck with all there inventory) and when we have a problem we end up eating it because no retailer is going to take them back for exchange. And Futaba's distributor becomes your ex brother-in-law on moving day 'no where to be found'.

Right now I have 4 of these that I just put in a new 600 nitro and I only had 5 flights on them, and I'm screwed. My retailer is saying if I can get Futaba to give me new servos then he will give me a refund (because he has to sell them as new). But the service center is saying tough cookies we just told you yesterday on Run Ryder that those servos are only good for surface use, ha, ha, ha. Never mind what the website says (which the service center has no control over, by the way)

All in all I think the service center is doing there job and doing it well. It's the Futaba business organization and distributor that's letting them and everyone else down.

I've used nothing but Futaba in all my helis, but this puts a real bitter taste in my mouth. Anybody want to buy 3 new BLS451's with only 5 flights, let me know. I wish they would all fail so at least I can return them and get new ones to return to my retailer for a refund.

Just my two pissed cents!

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03-05-2008 07:45 PM  10 years agoPost 49
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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This is insane. I just backed out on a deal on eight of these servos because of this controversy and Futaba's total ignorance to it's customers. Between this and the FASST debacle with them releasing product without the ability to use and and then not knowing what the 608 receiver spec's are... it really has me scratching my head.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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03-05-2008 07:45 PM  10 years agoPost 50
Jay1

rrVeteran

Colorado Springs

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I dont know if it was any different than before but this is what they now have:

Stock Number Name TypeSize Torque Speed Weight(oz) Use
FUTM0235 S9350 Digital Standard 138.8 0.12 2.1 Air/Surface
FUTM0236 S9351 Digital Standard 192 0.13 2 Surface
FUTM0300 S3050 Digital Standard 90.2 0.16 1.6 Air/Surface
FUTM0310 S3151 Digital Standard 54 0.17 1.5 Air/Surface
FUTM0311 S3152 Digital Standard 87 0.18 1.5 Air/Surface
FUTM0551 BLS351 Digital Standard 210 0.13 2.2 Surface
FUTM0552 BLS451 Digital Standard 147 0.1 2 Surface

FUTM0661 S9551 Digital Standard 136 0.12 1.6 Surface
FUTM0662 S9452 Digital Standard 128 0.11 2 Surface

If this was always the correct data then why are they supplying Heli only shops with these servos and letting them sell them as a heli application? Futaba reps should know better.

Jay
Sooner or later, Gravity will win!

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03-05-2008 07:49 PM  10 years agoPost 51
raptorheli2

rrElite Veteran

rip off britain and no changing it

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If this was always the correct data then why are they supplying Heli only shops with these servos and letting them sell them as a heli application? Futaba reps should know better.
how can you blame futaba for-

1.selling to shops that want something (just so happens heli shops want these, so they shouldn't sell them the servos they ask for?)

2.it clearly says for surface use. the 9451's were always for surface use but lots used them in helis.

futaba will have no control what people put on their website to sell the servos.

cheers


www.waterfoothelis.com

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03-05-2008 07:53 PM  10 years agoPost 52
Jay1

rrVeteran

Colorado Springs

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hummmm.... when you are putting up a heli that could be worth over $2k then you sometimes depend on the companies that either make the product or sell the product so in reality, there is a big disconnect here in the correct information that we as consumers depend on.

Jay
Sooner or later, Gravity will win!

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03-05-2008 07:57 PM  10 years agoPost 53
raptorheli2

rrElite Veteran

rip off britain and no changing it

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absolutely, but the makers say surface use. so do you listen to the horses mouth or its ar$e?

cheers


www.waterfoothelis.com

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03-05-2008 08:03 PM  10 years agoPost 54
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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The problem seems to be a disconnect between Futaba and the Futaba Team.

Lets take a pole.... no names....

How many here went with BLS451's by the advice of a Futaba Team member?

I did.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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03-05-2008 08:11 PM  10 years agoPost 55
cscheli

rrNovice

chicago, il

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The site was just changed this afternoon to say "Surface Only"
I spoke to the service guys this morning about my issue and told him to bring up the site and he did and saw the Air/Surface and he said they would call the people who manage the web to have it changed. I didn't thik it would happen in two hours! I'm sure you can still the orginal pages out at a google cache or the Internet archive or something.

Changing it now doesn't resolve them of responsibility to the people who bought them while they were still being markete as sutible for air and surface. Going forward, yeah sure the word is out use them at your own risk. But I disagree, I belive they have a responsibillity to the people who purchashed them under false pretenses. Nothing in the retail package says "surface use only", so what happens to the people who buy these direct from there local hobby shop who don't frequent Run Ryder or didn't visit the Futaba web-site before hand.

I'd really like to hear the take from a few dealers on how these servos were presented to them by the distributor, because now you have a lot of heli hobby shops that stocked up on these things that there not going to be able to sell. And if they do sell them that's just going to create a mess for the service center when they start comming back in.

I'm not bashing Futaba I've used nothing but there products, but they just really screwed this particular product introduction up and are leaving a lot of people holding the bag.

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03-05-2008 08:14 PM  10 years agoPost 56
Jay1

rrVeteran

Colorado Springs

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Raptor.....

Before you accuse people of listening to either parts of some horse.... I am basing my opinion on the first point that was made by another member here:
Select one:
Air
Surface
Servos that match your request:
4.8V; Digital; Standard size; 100 oz-in or greater torque; Air;
Stock Number Name Type Size Torque Speed Weight (oz) Use
FUTM0211 S9151 Digital Standard 131.9 0.19 1.8 Air
FUTM0212 S9152 Digital Standard 222 0.24 3 Air
FUTM0213 S9153 Digital Standard 167 0.19 3 Air
FUTM0215 S9155 Digital Standard 153 0.16 2 Air
FUTM0225 S9255 Digital Standard 112 0.17 1.9 Air / Surface
FUTM0235 S9350 Digital Standard 111 0.15 2.1 Air / Surface
FUTM0551 BLS351 Digital Standard 155 0.16 2.2 Air / Surface
FUTM0552 BLS451 Digital Standard 111 0.14 2 Air / Surface
Clearly it did state that but now my post shows something different as they removed the Air part and made it only surface. The information does not match the original anymore.

Jay
Sooner or later, Gravity will win!

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03-05-2008 08:16 PM  10 years agoPost 57
raptorheli2

rrElite Veteran

rip off britain and no changing it

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hold on and read my post, i'm not accusing anyone. calm.

i'm just saying futaba will have no control over what others say. however if the above is true and it said air on their site and they changed their mind today that is very different.

cheers


www.waterfoothelis.com

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03-05-2008 08:18 PM  10 years agoPost 58
Jay1

rrVeteran

Colorado Springs

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however if the above is true and it said air on their site and they changed their mind today that is very different.
That seems to be the case here....

Jay
Sooner or later, Gravity will win!

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03-05-2008 08:19 PM  10 years agoPost 59
raptorheli2

rrElite Veteran

rip off britain and no changing it

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well i would think there is some sort of re-course here with failed servos or servos that are used in helis. interesting times ahead and i'm glad i never went with these now.

cheers


www.waterfoothelis.com

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03-05-2008 08:20 PM  10 years agoPost 60
WhirlyBird500

rrApprentice

Rhode Island, USA

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I have had correspondence with Krysta today and it was said the web people would be contacted and have the page changed. It has been changed today. Jay1's information was a search I did this morning just after Krysta posted that these were not meant for helicopter use.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › BLS451 Glithing
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