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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterBeginners Corner › Very new to craft, curious on what model
09-24-2007 09:11 AM  12 years ago
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Kissker

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Hell

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Very new to craft, curious on what model
I've been researching as much as I can (mostly store slogan and motto to try and sell the craft sadly) but I would just like this...

I would like a RC helicopter, electric, that has about a 30 min flight time(of course the more the better)- can carry a wireless micro cam (and maybe a 9v battery, and i know this will drain some of the flight time).

Doesn't have to look the greatest= i plan on painting it anyway.
Would like it as cheap as possible..
ALSO:
Very important- It needs to have a very stable hover- I will be taking still shots as well as movie footage and I need it's hover to be as smooth as possible (I know part of this is learning to make it hover- but I've read some ads about how "xx_x technology for smoother hover" or "more stable hover" so a good hover is a must)
I could care less if it flys upside down and all that - I probably won't ever try it. (so I don't really need a 6 channel if I can help prevent it- I notice there a lot more expensive)

Size really doesn't matter either, Id like it pretty small but given it has to carry so much "extra" it will probably need to be at least 12 inches/18 long- which is fine- id like to keep it under 2 feet if possible however.

Plans for it- Custom colour it, mod it with the minicam and fly around my house and take some aerial movies and pictures of my yard and such, along with some fun and maybe fly in house. Plus I've always wanted to fly one- but when I checked them years ago- the electrics only flew for about 5 mins- 30 min charge time- and were very expensive. Technology has changed all that- now maybe my little dream can come true.

Thanks for any input. a Name of copter in the least is helpful- if you can give me name- description- webpage or whatever or where to buy it saves me trouble.
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09-24-2007 11:11 AM  12 years ago
wlfk

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uk

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would like a RC helicopter, electric, that has about a 30 min flight time(of course the more the better)-
A bit optimistic. 10-15 mins, at a stretch.
can carry a wireless micro cam (and maybe a 9v battery, and i know this will drain some of the flight time).
That's quite possible.
Would like it as cheap as possible..
It depends what you mean by cheap - you will probably need to spend a fair sum to get a helicopter that hovers smoothly.
Very important- It needs to have a very stable hover- I will be taking still shots as well as movie footage and I need it's hover to be as smooth as possible (I know part of this is learning to make it hover- but I've read some ads about how "xx_x technology for smoother hover" or "more stable hover" so a good hover is a must)
I could care less if it flys upside down and all that - I probably won't ever try it. (so I don't really need a 6 channel if I can help prevent it- I notice there a lot more expensive)
The serious helicopters mostly use 6 channels; it's not just about flying upside down. Collective pitch helicopters are steadier in a breeze than fixed-pitch helis.

Your best bet if you're taking stills from a small helicopter is probably to get a camera with good quality at high shutter speeds.
Plus I've always wanted to fly one- but when I checked them years ago- the electrics only flew for about 5 mins- 30 min charge time- and were very expensive. Technology has changed all that- now maybe my little dream can come true.
I'm sure it can, but I think you need to do some more research first. Why not check out youtube videos to see what other people have managed with their helicams, and figure out which meets your price/performance ratio. And it sounds as if you'll need to learn to fly too?

I think you can do it cheap, or you can do it well, but probably not both. And probably not quickly, 'off the shelf'. To get a stable platform you need a relatively large helicopter - probably not an indoors heli. And you need to think about the weight of your stills camera / video gear before choosing what to fly it on.

K
A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive
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09-24-2007 01:38 PM  12 years ago
Kissker

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yea.. your not too informative.. most the Li-Poly battery ones I look up have 25-30 min flight times- and theres a brand new copter out (a second version) that comes standard with a Li-Poly- 6channel and all that for about 100 bucks.
http://www.xheli.com/wa6dr22ein3d.html

It advertises 20-25 on that site- but another site forums has a discussion on it sayin if you remove some of the less needed parts (or mod a few parts) for some weight/performance they get 25-35 easily.

I guess thats why its out of stock- again.

And thats "cheap" to me. I was looking at some 600-3,000 dollar verstions that advertise 30 min flights and a ton of things for 3D flight/performance/ and mostly show, I wasn't expecting a radio shack 30 dollar copter. I have done a lot of research... apparently more then you know.. since I knew about FP and CP and honestly I still don't need a CP copter.

Learn to fly? sure. That's done in 3 hours (Provided charged bats) in my living room (about 40x40 with 20 ft airspace) controlled environment- no wind- no obstructions, plus handy couch coushions for crashes. I learn fast and adapt quickly- I learned how to pilot a speed bout in 30 mins. (real non RC) and I lived no where near an ocean or large lake for 2/3 my life. In fact- I learn so fast 10 years ago I built my computer, only to mod it 2 months later- and it STILL performs better then most name brands out there- it plays every game on the market in full spec.

Learning is not a problem, neither is the camera- its rated one of the top cameras around with a increasingly impressive shutter speed, distance, and clerity. 2.4ghz wireless connection to my PC it gets MORE then advertised ranges.

as for advanced modding structures you may not have thought of, I am fully willing, capable, and probably going to- take apart the entire copter and work piece by piece for performance- even if that means desoldering the whole system and starting from square one. thisll piss people off but - Iam not some richy rich californian kid that wants to get this together to spy on his neighbors daughter. I don't care if its ready out of box or requires me to cut it from its frame and assemble. Work doesn't bother me, expecially since I have access to a milling machine, all the aluminum I want and packing sand to make my own parts- I literally could take every part on the machine and mould them in sand and make aluminum replacements. (not sure how effective this would be for some of them- since Ali weighs more then nylon generally)

I also have access to and have built my own vacu-form chamber- to make plastic parts, a wood lathe and other tools most people don't just have laying around- I LOVE to make things and I learned most of these each in about a week of research and tinkering. My brain works differently then most- my mothers side is artistic, my dad's side is carpenters, I literally dream in blue prints on some projects. I have made my own Plastic costume/movie replica of Star War's Boba Fett, from nothing more then sheets of plastic and a 5 dollar haloween mask. (won costume competition for it as well and the helmet made bid of 200 dollars on ebay) - I painted it myself and I had never spray painted anything before for weathering- so it took a few hours of research to figure out what to do and do it.
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09-24-2007 02:48 PM  12 years ago
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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Sorry but you arent going to see many electrics with 30 minute flight times. No matter what they claim in their advertising.Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
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09-24-2007 02:56 PM  12 years ago
Mutt

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M ca usa

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Going to take a lot more then 3 hours to learn to fly a heli. You really need to research this out as it is going to run you more then 100 bucks to truly get into AP.
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09-24-2007 08:09 PM  12 years ago
wlfk

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uk

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What is your camera with a fast shutter speed? How much does it weigh? How do you plan to activate the shutter on a still camera without a spare channel?

I'm sorry if my 1st Email came sounded patronising, but without being specific, it's hard to expect us to give any more than very general replies to your question.

My flatmate bought a Walkera #4, advertised as getting 30 minute flight times. What they meant was that it came with 2 batteries; 15 minutes each. It's about the same size as the #22 you were looking at. It doesn't do what I would call a 'steady hover'.

If you're looking at a 2.4gHz camera system, avoid the higher quality r/c craft that come with 2.4gHz radio gear (e.g. Spektrum). They'll interfere.

Perhaps a co-axial fixed pitch would meet your needs better, if you can find one with a half-decent payload. They have a low center of gravity and really are relatively stable. You might even learn to fly one in a few hours.

Or perhaps, given your genius and access to tools, you could just build one from scratch. I'm half serious there - look up the 'tricopter' on the internet.

Not quite sure why I bothered.

K
A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive
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09-24-2007 10:14 PM  12 years ago
vavavoom

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London, England

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Three hours?.....................## Inteligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit...Common sense is not putting it in a fruit salad
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09-25-2007 03:15 AM  12 years ago
legoman67

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Nanoose Bay B.C, Canada

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its going to be 2000$ to get a heli setup how you want with camera and copilot and stuff... then theres the learning, which you will ned a sim and lots of hours of practice, and you will crash afew times learning, so thats another few hundred maybe 1000... if you looking into it as a quick money maker then forget it, people pay what they pay for the service because it is so expensive and takes a skill do right.
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09-25-2007 05:50 AM  12 years ago
george0079

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USA

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My brother "Knew he could learn this in a day" as well. And, $2000, 8 months, and 4 helicopters later, he finally realized that RC helis weren't as easy as he thought.Hell... I can fix that.
Uh oh..
Nope.
It's ***ked!!!
RE-KIT!!!!!
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09-25-2007 06:01 AM  12 years ago
legoman67

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Nanoose Bay B.C, Canada

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My brother "Knew he could learn this in a day" as well. And, $2000, 8 months, and 4 helicopters later, he finally realized that RC helis weren't as easy as he thought.
LOL
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09-25-2007 08:43 AM  12 years ago
Aceface

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South Africa

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Re: Cheap easy to fly Not possible
Hi I have been in rc flying for 2 years now and just moved up to helis baught a helimax mx 400 for $89.00 Plus a helimax 2550 brushless motor $51.00 ESC $35.00 and then the radio system about $160.00 JR x6210

Fist flight I blue the rotor head apart before even got off the ground had to replace with alu rotor head $41.00 have had one fligh hover is very smooth but as for flying it I need way more practice so good luck
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09-26-2007 01:47 AM  12 years ago
wlfk

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(S)he hasn't said what quality he wants the footage to be.

My camera of choice (EOS SLR, weighs 1500g with lens) would need a monster to lift it; for webcam quality with a lightweight camera it may not be impossible to do it relatively cheaply.

My current setup cost:

CMOS camera: £40
10mW TX: £20
RX with monitor: £100

I think it comes in about 100g - haven't actually weighed it.

K
A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive
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09-26-2007 01:52 AM  12 years ago
bmw

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Lake Zurich U.S.A.

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I learn fast and adapt quickly
We would all like you to re-post in say 4 week and tell us how fast you have been learning

really

you may be one in a million
Runway? what runway??
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09-27-2007 06:03 AM  12 years ago
Kissker

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Hell

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Well thank Some of you for input- although you could be helping a little more instead of "its never going to happen" the fact is just because you - nor someone you know couldn't do it - doesn't make it impossible. Think a little more- years ago 2 men were ridiculed and completely discouraged for there idea- it would never work it was "impossible" yet- they did it- they built and flew an aircraft. (The Wright brothers btw)

So before yellin at me saying it can't be done.. why not try thinking- that POSSIBLY if you did "this"- it MAYBE would work.

That is how science is furthered after all.

Thanks for some input.. some I knew and neglected to mention (like if iam using a 2.4 Gh cam to not use a 2.4 Gh transmitter for the heli itself- kinda like don't use a 2.4Gh phone aroud them)

more research on bats has shown 25 min flights quite common- if you dish out for the right battery and a nice brushless motor= but also only on a few models of craft- something to do with the internals and weight I would assume.

as for building my own... possibly, I plan to buy one- fly around a bit and tear it apart and tinker with it anyway.

as for some of you- before you try to "put me down" get some spelling lessons. "blue the rotor" is not proper, and it really makes me just over look your comments- if you can't spell your probably too immature for me to deal with anyway, afterall I came to this site for assistance- not to be l33t spoken to.

Ive decided to slash the idea for a motionless camera - given some of the recording qualities of the ones out there- it would be simpler to just record a short movie - then splice and cut out the image I want using programs I have or can easily get. So shutter speed is no longer a worry- and the hover doesn't have to be apache scout perfect.

as for the camera- the mini cam and transmitter is a little over 24g, not a ton of weight to the copter- and I will be "cutting" about 2g off the copter itself to mount the camera (the faceplate)

If you would LIKE to help - grab your electic and do this- attach a 9v battery to it and see if it flies, and how long. If you can do that, try 2 9v. I'd like to see if any copter out could hold 4 9v batteries for 15-20 mins. (even just hovering)

I only plan to go about 100 ft in the air- less for distanced shots (like side views) meaning the copter would be about 200ft away from "home" at most - and at that distance only about 30 feet off the ground.

as for all you still saying "flying is hard" look.. it doesn't matter to me I know I can learn to do what I need in a day- it may take all day practicing but I gurantee a flight- turn around and safe landing in 3 hours.

as for the "post again in 4 weeks" comment- Ill make a deal- 4 weeks after I actually GET a copter- sure. I planned to post the Day I got it- and then hopefully my camera will be in by then and Ill even take a lil movie to show what I can do, or have been doing. First things first- Getting the copter and camera (copter being more important- camera just for 100% proof I was flying it.)

if anyone has this copter http://www.xheli.com/wa6dr22ein3d.html or knows more about it then what it says there- please tell me- I was thinking of getting it- getting a dif motors for it and playing with the battery... and more info would be great on it. it advertises 20-25 min flights with a brush motor: and considering how little 5 mins is to my project I can deal with 25 min flight- maybe even 20- but only if the battery doesn't take hours to recharge.
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09-27-2007 06:43 AM  12 years ago
george0079

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It's junk. But please feel free to try it. And when you're done "modifying it" trying to get better performance out of it (Like no one here has thought of that, or tried it.) let us know.

Really, all of the research and development people have no idea what they're doing, and no understanding of physics and aero-dynamics. Nor do the test pilots that have been doing this, and getting paid to do it, for years.

Look, I understand your confidence in yourself. That's a good thing to have in this world. But your lack of knowledge and understanding of this hobby is what is going to get you, (or worse yet, someone else) hurt, or in trouble. Listen to what the people here are telling you. They are right.
Hell... I can fix that.
Uh oh..
Nope.
It's ***ked!!!
RE-KIT!!!!!
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09-27-2007 07:13 AM  12 years ago
wlfk

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Kissker - a word in your ear:

It's bad newsgroup manners to reprimand other people for poor spelling. Also, poor spelling doesn't necessarily imply immaturity or poor intelligence. I know some extremely bright people with Dyslexia and I would take their advice against yours any day.

But here goes anyway:

mostly store slogan and motto to try and sell the craft sadly - no problems spelling, but some weird grammar.
Id - should be I'd
another site forums - should be 'another site's forum'
as - Words at the start of sentences should have capital letters
blue prints - not sure that's wrong, but generally people spell it as one word 'blueprints'.
clerity - clarity
there idea - their idea
your probably - you're probably
Ill - I'll

Mistakes in your posts. I haven't been comprehensive either.

It's also churlish to say 'I knew that' when offered advice, even if it's true.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm extremely loath to give you any more of my time, but here goes anyway.

I have a trex 450, and I flew a camera on it that weighed more than a pp3 (9V). It weighed in about 100g all told, and even though my helicopter is much bigger and more capable than the ones you were looking at, it somehow felt a lot heavier in the air and was significantly harder to fly. An oft-posted limit is that a heli can lift 1/3 to 1/2 its own weight as payload.

I powered it from my main battery (3s lipo) through a breakout I made. I needed to add a filter to stop motor noise from causing interference.

Actually, I think you might have more luck with a stills camera than a video camera. The reason: in order to hover, you have to make lots of quick control inputs, which tilt the helicopter in different directions. Provided the stills camera has a half-decent shutter speed this sort of motion ('steady hover' shouldn't matter too much -high-frequency vibration would cause more problems. But on video footage it generally makes me feel seasick.

I wouldn't conflate putting an off the shelf camera on a toy helicopter with flying the first powered aircraft.

Look up the coaxial craft on youtube. They're far less the bucking bronco than the one you're considering.

K
A bit like a kite, but 500 times more expensive
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09-27-2007 03:27 PM  12 years ago
legoman67

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Well thank Some of you for input- although you could be helping a little more instead of "its never going to happen" the fact is just because you - nor someone you know couldn't do it - doesn't make it impossible. Think a little more- years ago 2 men were ridiculed and completely discouraged for there idea- it would never work it was "impossible" yet- they did it- they built and flew an aircraft. (The Wright brothers btw)
true, but then the wright brothers made something completely new, your "dream" is nothing new and people all over have done this.. and its nearly a fact that noone can pic up an rc heli and fly it without crashing the first time...... no matter along with a cam... people who have been flying helis for years even find it hard when a cam is aboard..
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09-27-2007 05:32 PM  12 years ago
Proline

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Austin,Texas

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Kissker
Don't know how old you are but you sound very young. I have been flying RC fixed wing for 30+ years and helis for the last 3 or 4. Until now my 3 years here on RR have been to educate myself and that learning curve has been very steep. The reason I have not posted much before was because I did not have much to add until I educated myself. Over 50 aircraft (most fixed wing of course) and I feel, at times, that I still don't know #*@#$ compared to the people you are so arrogantly addressing. YOU NEED SCHOOLING BEFORE YOU KILL SOMEONE.

To your credit you have come to the right place. Now all you need to do is check the attitude at the door and start listening. This forum has some of the brightest minds from all walks of life. They have come here to share valid info with one another as well as HELP THE NEW GUY!!!. YA YOU. These people are full scale pilots, aircraft engineers, world champs, and so on. Sorry to come down so hard on you but believe me when I tell you that once these guys get a hold of you.... well you might want to just start over under a new name because we take this VERY SERIOSLY, and when we don't someone can be hurt or killed.

With your current mentality you might look into a blimp with a disposable camera. You get the shot without risking life and limb. OTHERWISE GET A SIM FIRST. Should take (YOU) like 7.2 seconds to master.

WOW SORRY GUYS... Don't know what came over me. Just my 2 cents.
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09-27-2007 05:53 PM  12 years ago
JEEPWORLD2002

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BLUEBELL PA USA

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I was you 6 month ago. Dont buy walkera. they dont fly well at all. the lipo for that bird will only porvide 10 min max. there was a post on the trex 600e get a 26 min flight when using 2 batteries in paraell. but usually you will get 15 min max hovering on air thunder batt which are better then the average lipo cause they dont follow the 80/20 rule. The walkera brand is not worth it. their electronic suck and die after 10 flight. very prone to glitching. the servos are junk and will strip on power up. and placstic weaker then balsa wood. I had 2 df 60s. please learn from my mistake and other do a serch on here and the walkera forum. You would be a lot better off to start on a sim like g3 and there are others that are good g3 being the best. Get info on the equipment that you plan to buy and resurch a helli that you can get help with from a local field or flyer. It can get very costly if you try on your own. As for a heli I would start with a align trex 450 or wait a couple month and get a trex 500 soon to be released. And I would go nitro as the cost is cheaper to start. batteries are costly and lipo chargers are pricey too. and a battery can be dameage in a crash and sset you back a lot. I would recomend a 30 size to start as the smaller helli are faster moving and require quick inputs as a bigger nitro will require inputs just not as fast so learning will be easyer. I would also reserch a flying field so you can see what the locals fly and the local hobby shop to see what replacment parts prices are. and then determine what to buy. This is the best way. please dont jump on the cheapest helli you can find its not worth it. kevin
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09-27-2007 07:14 PM  12 years ago
vavavoom

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London, England

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This post is a credit to the help Runryders give Noobs. This is probably the most arrogant and rude post I have ever read, and yet people are still willing to help.
Guys you are diamonds.
## Inteligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit...Common sense is not putting it in a fruit salad
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