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HomeOff Topics › V-22 Osprey has deployed to Iraq.
02-10-2008 06:48 AM  10 years agoPost 121
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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^^^ Thanks for the info. Great V22 pics in your gallery as well. I'm envious!
Looks like w/the blades locked in the right position, they can be tilted forward (while on the ground) into what would be their forward flight configuration.
Yes they can, also if you look in my gallery they could be folded up.
Can this bird glide to a landing in that configuration?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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02-10-2008 05:02 PM  10 years agoPost 122
Super Phreek

rrVeteran

Sunny Lancaster, California

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Can this bird glide to a landing in that configuration?
Yes the aircraft can glide in thst position. Now as with most military aircraft, the glide isn't that great.

Derek

Is that a 6s 5000 in your pocket,
or are you just happy to see me?

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02-11-2008 04:12 AM  10 years agoPost 123
Apache Snow

rrNovice

Northbrook, ILL

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http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/scienc...prey/index.html
Since then, the planes have logged more than 2,000 flight hours, initially doing routine cargo and troop movements from base to base in an area about the size of South Carolina.
WOW,,,, a 100 Million dollar a piece aircraft is being used for "cargo and troop movements from base to base",,,,, The Osprey is being used as a truck....... Why does this not surprise me that the Marines don't want to risk a 100Mil aircraft to ground fire or that the pilots might have to take drastic evasive action during a Firefight,,, exceeding the flight envelope and a crash occurs....
In December, commanders gave the planes a more risky mission called "aero-scout" in which a group of V-22s flies into a relatively unsecured location and drops off Marines for a search mission.
"commanders gave the planes a more risky mission " you mean command sent the V-22s into a screaming Hot LZ,,, where all Hell was breakin lose,,, I must read further my blood is racing now...

"relatively unsecured location ",,,,, what kind of Pentagon BS is that... Is that like an area where there might be a few Goat Herders who might be carrying an AK47???..... And when the Osprey's returned to base how many Bullet and Frag holes did the crews have to patch???

Typical Pentagon Spin,,, build it up with "risky mission" then the let down... Well the area was "relatively unsecured",,, Hmmmm let see,,, more like a maneuver,,, not an Op or S&D....

hootowl,,,,,, if you think that's "proving its mettle in Iraq"???,,,, what's your definition of Skating????
.

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02-11-2008 04:40 AM  10 years agoPost 124
DOperchal

rrApprentice

Ft Rucker, AL

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There are no "hot LZ's in Iraq. Also what the hell to you think that every helicopter in Iraq besides the AH-XX's do? Ass and trash. Most of the helo shoot downs in Iraq have been on routine missions, the insurgents just happen to be in their flight path with an RPG or MANPAD.

Peace through superior firepower

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02-11-2008 05:17 AM  10 years agoPost 125
Apache Snow

rrNovice

Northbrook, ILL

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Cadet,,,, unlike you I've been thru a War,,, Vietnam.... I know what happens during the routine mundane hours and days when there's no Action,,,, I also know what happens when their is Action.....

Also,,, don't lecture me on "what the hell to you think that every helicopter in Iraq besides the AH-XX's do"... I've seen helicopters haulin fuel bladders, disabled helicopters, cargo nets filled with killed American Soldiers, and sky's filled with Hueys.....

Hauling "Ass and trash" is not "proving its mettle in Iraq"???,,,, The craft was supposed to be the greatest thing since the invention of the helicopter.... It's supposed to be used to "Insert and Extract Specials Ops or Forces",,, a truck is not what it was promoted as!!!!
.

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02-11-2008 05:22 AM  10 years agoPost 126
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Seems even V-22 threads are rife with strife.

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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02-11-2008 09:56 AM  10 years agoPost 127
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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The craft was supposed to be the greatest thing since the invention of the helicopter.... It's supposed to be used to "Insert and Extract Specials Ops or Forces",,, a truck is not what it was promoted as!!!!
It can do these things better than anything available today. Been nice if it didn't take so long to get it right. Cost... everything is expensive today. Do you want a slow, cheap helicopter with short range coming to rescue you or bring you supplies? It's not a combat helicopter. It's a replacement for the CH46. The CH46 is a cargo helicopter.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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02-11-2008 06:17 PM  10 years agoPost 128
#55

rrVeteran

Dyersburg, TN

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There are no "hot LZ's in Iraq. Also what the hell to you think that every helicopter in Iraq besides the AH-XX's do? Ass and trash.
I resent that statement,(As a 60 pilot myself) besides- you left out the 58.

Dropping Tones!

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02-11-2008 10:36 PM  10 years agoPost 129
DOperchal

rrApprentice

Ft Rucker, AL

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My mistake. The fact remains though. The MV-22 was designed initially as an assault chopper. There is not much airborne assault going on right now in Iraq, its serving its use as a troop hauler. The AF is using the CV-22 for Spec Ops, and it has not reached IOC yet.

Peace through superior firepower

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02-11-2008 10:50 PM  10 years agoPost 130
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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These were the initial objectives back in 1981.
  1. Marines: Medium Assault Transport
  2. Navy: Combat Search and Rescue
  3. Air Force: Special Operations
  4. Army: Multimission Transport
The V-22 primarily was designed to replace the aging CH-46 Chinook and CH-53 which are primarily haulers. It was never intended primarily for heavy assault.

Give it a chance to find it's way. They are using it more and more as they realize it's capabilities.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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02-12-2008 03:50 AM  10 years agoPost 131
Apache Snow

rrNovice

Northbrook, ILL

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It can do these things better than anything available today. Been nice if it didn't take so long to get it right. Cost... everything is expensive today. Do you want a slow, cheap helicopter with short range coming to rescue you or bring you supplies? It's not a combat helicopter. It's a replacement for the CH46. The CH46 is a cargo helicopter.
hootowl,,,,,,,, You keep on equating expense to quality,,,, just because other helicopters cost less doesn't mean they are CHEAP,,,, Thousands of soldiers owe their lives to what you call CHEAP helicopters; Hueys, Chinooks, etc,,,, You denigrate pilots who don't fly the Osprey by classifying all NON-Osprey aircraft as CHEAP.... The V-22 is your Pay Check,,, you smear aircraft that are NON-Osprey,,, it's called vested interest....

In Vietnam I saw CHs flying with parts hanging off,,, parts missing,, really shot-up.... I've seen the remains of Hueys, CHs, and Jolly Greens with so many holes in them you wonder how they flew at all,, but they did,, and made it out to a less dangerous area.... I was at a remote LZ and I saw the remains of a CH that came in on fire and crashed,,, The airframe was intact and 3/4ths of the guys onboard survived... There were so many holes in it none of us could believe the thing even flew..... I had pics of it,, but an ARVN scarfed my camera with the film in it...

FACT,, who's using the V-22
US Marines - ordered 330 aircraft
US Air Force - ordered a token 40 aircraft

FACT,, who's rejected the V-22
US Coast Guard
US Delta Force
US Army (all Special Forces & Specials Ops)
US Navy (all Special Forces & Specials Ops excluding Marines)

All branches of the military are ordering the upgraded CH-47 including the USAF... The Marines are not going to retire any Helicopter currently in there inventory.... The V-22 replaces nothing,,, it's just an expensive add on....
.

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02-12-2008 05:32 AM  10 years agoPost 132
DOperchal

rrApprentice

Ft Rucker, AL

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Granted the helicopters of 'Nam were battle tested more than any helicopter since but you have no basis to determine the combat survivability of the Osprey, no one does. We just have to wait until some Haji with a stinger takes aim. It may be more survivable it may not be. I think that it will be more survivable to MANPADS because the engines are out on the wings, not near the crew cabin.
FACT,, who's rejected the V-22[/b]
US Coast Guard
US Delta Force
US Army (all Special Forces & Specials Ops)
US Navy (all Special Forces & Specials Ops excluding Marines)
Delta Force does not have any of their own aviation assets. They bum off of SOAR 160, USAF, whomever. Army did not want to invest in the development cost due in part due to their ill-fated Commanche program.
All branches of the military are ordering the upgraded CH-47 including the USAF... The Marines are not going to retire any Helicopter currently in there inventory.... The V-22 replaces nothing,,, it's just an expensive add on....
The Navy is not ordering the Chinook. The AF contract is in limbo and will probably get changed to the HH-71 due to a number of reasons. You are right though, the V-22 does not replace anything. It is an entirely new airframe with a new set of capabilities.

Also you said that hoot had a vested interest and talks bad about any other airframe. You are the same way. You have done nothing but slam the Osprey since this thread started. Granted it deserves some ridicule, any new military project does (F-22 for example). You make it seem like the V-22 is going to end Western civilization or bring on the apocalypse.

Peace through superior firepower

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02-12-2008 09:54 AM  10 years agoPost 133
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Sorry if I came off as putting down other helicopters as I didn't mean it that way. The CH 46/47 Chinooks as well as the others mentioned certainly made their place in history and continue to do so. All have their particular capabilities. Like many platforms though, many change rolls once deployed. Some rolls get expanded while others get more specific depending on the potential of the design and circumstances.

The big advantage the V-22 has is it's ability to fly farther and faster. This means it can go places other platforms simply cannot do because of range and time. This is huge. If anyone has had the pleasure of seeing a V-22 coming at you in airplane mode you'll hear another advantage.... it's practically silent coming at you.

"MV-22B
Basic US Marine Corps transport; original requirement for 552 (now 360). The Marine Corps is the lead service in the development of the V-22 Osprey. The Marine Corps variant, the MV-22B, is an assault transport for troops, equipment and supplies, capable of operating from ships or from expeditionary airfields ashore. It is replacing the Marine Corps CH-46E and CH-53D."

Here is great picture of the V-22 flying..

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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02-12-2008 01:41 PM  10 years agoPost 134
SSN Pru

rrElite Veteran

Taxachusetts

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Nothing anyone does or says here will convince apache snow that the V-22 is anything other than a colossal waste of time and money. He is so obviously still stuck with Vietnam era technology and capabilities...

If it were up to him, I'm sure the military would still be flying Huey gunships too

Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!

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02-12-2008 05:10 PM  10 years agoPost 135
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Ospreys proving mettle in counter-IED, medevac missions

Aerospace Daily

The U.S. Marine Corps' V-22 Osprey aircraft are helping thwart improvised explosive device (IED) attacks in Iraq, as well as rescuing casualties in record time, the service reports.

"While conducting an Aero Scout Mission, the MV-22 supported the largest interdiction of an enemy arms cache in Area of Operations Denver," Marine Maj. Eric Dent said. "The interdiction eliminated several vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices and a large depot of explosives."

The V-22 was vital to mission success, Dent said.

"The Aero Scout Mission, into an extended range area, would not have been possible if not for the MV-22's enhanced capabilities," he said.

Speed and range

The Osprey's selling points include speed and range - it initially was meant for combat, search and rescue operations - and those attributes are paying off on other missions, the Marines say.

"In the casualty evacuation example, two MV-22s responded to a combat casualty call for evacuation over 85 nautical miles away," Dent said. "The mission was successfully conducted within an hour - a feat no other platform could have accomplished."

The Marines have taken some flak from analysts and Washington think tanks for relying on Osprey development to fulfill some of their aircraft needs. There was more consternation when the service decided to deploy the V-22s into Iraq last fall. But so far, the Marines say the aircraft has met or exceeded expectations.

Full range

The first Osprey squadron, Dent said, is fulfilling the full range of combat medium lift assault support mission requirements in Al Anbar province. This mission range includes raids, aero scouts, tactical inserts, Governance Support, Leadership Battlefield circulation, Casualty Evacuation (CASEVAC), Tactical Recovery of Aircraft and Personnel (TRAP), Ground Combat Element (GCE), Quick Reaction Force (QRF), general support, and battlefield transportation of troops and cargo (DAILY, Jan. 25).

"The speed, range and payload of the MV-22 Osprey enables the Marine Air Ground Task Force (MAGTF) to provide greater and more effective combat support over larger distances in less time," Dent said. "It is a transformational battlefield capability that will redefine aspects of MAGTF combined-arms operations. The MV-22 provides greater operational reach."

Despite detractors' concerns, Dent said, the aircraft has not only proved effective, but is also safe.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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02-13-2008 04:26 AM  10 years agoPost 136
Apache Snow

rrNovice

Northbrook, ILL

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Granted the helicopters of 'Nam were battle tested more than any helicopter since but you have no basis to determine the combat survivability of the Osprey, no one does. We just have to wait until some Haji with a stinger takes aim. It may be more survivable it may not be. I think that it will be more survivable to MANPADS because the engines are out on the wings, not near the crew cabin.

DOperchal,,,, That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard!!!.... You have to be in an Admin. or Logistics curriculum,,,, no one in pilot training or flight school would ever make a dumb comment like that.

Cadet,,,, you need to do your homework,,, look at the footage of what the Stingers did to the Soviet helicopter and transports in Afghanistan,,, cut some of them in half... You forget what runs through the "crew cabin",,,, hydraulic lines,, data cables,, electric lines..... Hydraulic line breaks and leaks are one of just many problems that plague the Osprey,,, that either force it to ground or make the pilots return to base....
The Navy is not ordering the Chinook. The AF contract is in limbo and will probably get changed to the HH-71 due to a number of reasons. You are right though, the V-22 does not replace anything. It is an entirely new airframe with a new set of capabilities.
The Navy is ordering VH-71s because they know the V-22 is high cost, high maintenance,, a low/poor return for the investment.. If the V-22 was such a great aircraft,,, they would be buying them..

"new set of capabilities",,,, Wrong,, the only capability the V-22 has is it's ability to fly in airplane mode,,, that's it..
Also you said that hoot had a vested interest and talks bad about any other airframe. You are the same way. You have done nothing but slam the Osprey since this thread started. Granted it deserves some ridicule, any new military project does (F-22 for example). You make it seem like the V-22 is going to end Western civilization or bring on the apocalypse.
I make no money from the Osprey,, hootowl does... His purpose was to promote this aircraft when he started this thread... I have not criticized any other aircraft,,, that's your misconception... I have never said anything bad about Osprey Pilots,, and never will... Any Military Pilot gets tons of respect from me... My life has been in their hands many times,,, they are a unique breed,,, not to mention the fact they also have excellent cardiovascular systems...

Cadet,,,, I'm a taxpayer,,, and I'm footing the bill for your education.... I suggest you bury your head in the books,,,, instead of political discussions.....
.

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02-13-2008 05:10 AM  10 years agoPost 137
DOperchal

rrApprentice

Ft Rucker, AL

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Cadet,,,, you need to do your homework,,, look at the footage of what the Stingers did to the Soviet helicopter and transports in Afghanistan,,, cut some of them in half... You forget what runs through the "crew cabin",,,, hydraulic lines,, data cables,, electric lines..... Hydraulic line breaks and leaks are one of just many problems that plague the Osprey,,, that either force it to ground or make the pilots return to base....
You just proved my point. The reason the Soviet helicopters were cut in half was because the stingers went for the heat source, located in the center of the cabin. The V-22's heat source are out on the wings. If an engine gets blown off it can still somewhat glide to a landing, unlike a helo in two pieces.
"new set of capabilities",,,, Wrong,, the only capability the V-22 has is it's ability to fly in airplane mode,,, that's it..
A VTOL aircraft flying in airplane mode IS a new capability.
Cadet,,,, I'm a taxpayer,,, and I'm footing the bill for your education.... I suggest you bury your head in the books,,,, instead of political discussions.....
Do you not think that political prowess is a key aspect of what makes a good military officer? Especially in today's counter insurgency operations, political knowledge is a key component to success.

Also debating the merits of a piece of military hardware is closer to engineering than politics. Being an aeronautical engineering major i am willing to bet that this discussion is well within my area of concentration. Your tax dollars at work.

Peace through superior firepower

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02-13-2008 05:28 AM  10 years agoPost 138
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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What's the rotor RPM of an Osprey in a hover? How 'bout at Vne?

How many degrees of blade pitch variation is available?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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02-13-2008 10:35 AM  10 years agoPost 139
TrexRookie

rrKey Veteran

San Francisco, CA

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The V-22's heat source are out on the wings. If an engine gets blown off it can still somewhat glide to a landing, unlike a helo in two pieces.
I'd like to see test results on where you'd assume one of these things would be able to glide to a landing... if it were in helicopter mode and one engine were blown off, it would go into a violent roll due to a loss of upward thrust from one side.. in it's airplane configuration I'm not so sure what'd happen, but I'd sure like to see some tests.

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02-13-2008 11:16 AM  10 years agoPost 140
GimbalFan (RIP)

rrProfessor

Big Coppitt Key, FL

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Here's GlobalSecurity.org's massive buttload of V-22 info, but I haven't found the rotor rpm specs yet. It appears it's designed to maintain a mostly constant rpm from hover through conversion to forward flight, with collective pitch and throttle adjustments controlled automatically to maintain an ideal rpm.

With 39' diameter rotor, to have a 500 mph tip speed would mean spinning at 360 rpms. That about right?

EDIT -- Nevermind, I found it.
The V-22 Osprey uses 2-speed rotors, a 412 RPM for helicopter mode and for conversion to airplane mode and 333 RPM when the rotors are locked in propeller mode for forward flight.
Dammit, I want one o' them for weekends and holidays, stripped of all military hardware, fitted with long range fuel tanks and decked out like a rock 'n' roll tour bus, with satellite TV and a shop for working on the little birds.

Is that asking too much?

op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t

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