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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Too rich or too lean??
08-06-2007 01:37 AM  13 years ago
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shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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Too rich or too lean??
I have a G26 bone stock on my gasser and have a quick question.
First off, my high needle is at 1.25 and the low is at 1.25. I've ran a gallon of 32:1 lawnbow with regular 92octane gas. When I'm in a hover, the engine is running pretty smooth, but I get a slight shudder through the tail, the engine does change note just a bit. I can lean the bottom and it doesn't really seem like it changes, and I don't really want to go any leaner on the bottom anyway. I can lean the top just a screwdriver blade width and it seems to get a little better, but once again, I don't want to run it too lean. I've just been flying it gently around for the first gallon. It has a great climbout.
Other than the shudder every couple of seconds, it runs really good. This is my first gasser engine, but I've been around and raced 2-stroke dirt bikes all of my life......and my weedeater and blower run great...
What do you guys think?
Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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08-06-2007 04:21 AM  13 years ago
Excalibur

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Hi Shuttlepilot:

1-1/4 on the HI and LO needles is really asking for trouble. You're probably getting away with it right now because you are running a 32:1 oil ratio. You really should be running richer needle settings during break-in to help prevent overheating and damage to the engine.

When tuning a gasser, you have to remember that leaning it out for performance can actually cause other problems (overheating is just one symptom). When you run too lean, the engine vibrations can increase and will generally manifest as a visible horizontal-fin buzz or landing skid blur on one side or the other. This high-vibration environment can shear off screws, damage servos, and cause gyro drift, among other ills.

The other thing that can be affecting engine performance is the amount of oil and type of oil you are using. A lot of people on this forum use a good synthetic oil at a ratio of 60:1, 50:1 or even 40:1 after break-in. Now, if you change your oil and go to these lower ratios, you will very likely damage your engine if you leave the needles at 1-1/4. The likelihood increases the thinner the ratio (less oil).

I would recommend (as per the gurus on this site), to set both needles to 1-3/8 and run a tank. Don't be too quick to change these needle settings. Fly a quarter or half a tank and then make a determination on whether or not you need an adjustment. If you see a vibration in the horizontal fin or landing skid, open the LO needle a screwdriver blade-width and try it again. If you get a lot of tail kicking without vibes, you can back the LO needle off a little bit to tame it down a little.

After getting the LO needle set, try some full power climb outs and listen closely to the engine. Now bring it down and adjust the HI needle a little richer until you get to a point where the engine loads up and cuts out during climb out. From there start backing off the HI needle until you can get a good climb out without the engine loading up. The HI needle is not as sensitive as the LO, so you can adjust it in 1/16 to 1/8 increments without much trouble. After this, go back and check the low needle and adjust ONLY if necessary. While you are doing this, check your muffler after each flight and tighten it down just too be safe. A loose muffler WILL cause the engine to lean out, which can cause you to chase your tail when tuning, or cause damage on the muffler side of the piston in the worst case.

Remember too, you only have a gallon of fuel through the engine, and it's not uncommon for them to start running smoother after two or three gallons have been run through. Also, when in doubt, it's always safer to err on the side of too rich then risking a lean run on the needles.

Hope this makes some sense - good luck with your gasser.

Xcal
Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
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08-06-2007 08:59 AM  13 years ago
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Too lean. Keep it as it is and you will melt the engine. Do not lean these engines out to gain power. Just about all of the advice you will find on RR will tell you to run a new Zenoah engine with the needles between 1 3/8ths and 1 1/2 open.

Paul.
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08-06-2007 12:22 PM  13 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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I've taken the high back to 1.5 turns and the low is just over 1 1/4. I wasn't leaning it for power, I just thought that maybe it would smooth out just a little. I had ran the engine before for about 10 gallons or so and I leaned the top too much and resulted in a burnt piston and cylinder.. I wasn't going to lean it any more. The vibrations are fine, nothing with the skids at all. I'm using non-synthetic oil right now, and looking through the exhaust port everything is looking good. The plug also has a very dark "rich" look to it. I'll leave the needles where you guys suggested and just run it that way for a few gallons and see if it starts to smooth out it a couple of more gallons.....and have patience.Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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08-06-2007 03:14 PM  13 years ago
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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Thanks guys. I have a g231 which I mounted a new carb on (Walbro 644, needed the chock) and am also going thru re-tuninig, so this will help.

My current plug details, using Amzoil, 3 oz/gal.
I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?
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08-07-2007 04:08 AM  13 years ago
Excalibur

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Shuttlepilot:

Good luck with your tuning procedure. Just remember, on a gas engine you need to RICHEN the LO needle to smooth things out, vibration-wise. Also, your spark plug should be a nice tan color, not dark brown. This is inevitably due to the high oil content you are running and probably the type of oil.

GyroFreak:

You really don't need a choke on a gasser, it's just one more thing to mess around with. Check out this thread for a different perspective:

http://www.runryder.com/t358892p1/

Xcal
Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
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11-04-2007 12:40 AM  12 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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I know this is an old thread, but just wanted to say that since I discovered camper fuel, tuning is a non-issue.

I was one that thought that it shouldn't make a difference, but I have ran my G26 though about 15 or so gallons total on gasoline. I would get it "tuned" but I still didn't like the way it ran 100%. So, went out today to wally world and bought a gallon of coleman fuel. Man what a difference!! Super smooth running at the same needles as the gas. I couldn't believe it. I really never thought that it would make as much difference as it did. My gasser was pretty smooth before, but now, it's almost like a nitro ship in reguards to vibration.
Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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11-04-2007 04:56 AM  12 years ago
Excalibur

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Sounds good ShuttlePilot. Just keep us posted if you start having trouble running on Coleman versus Ozark.

Xcal
Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
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11-05-2007 02:50 AM  12 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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They didn't have any Ozark at my Wall-Mart. In fact, I don't even think they carry it. I was actually going to buy it before the Coleman. So far, the Coleman is MUCH better than the 87, 89, or 92 octane gas that I have used. It appears that these engines really like the low octane, or at least mine does. The vibrations at idle are suprisingly less than with gas also.Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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03-17-2008 02:40 PM  12 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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Well,

Went back to regular gas since Coleman is available only in 1 qt guantities at my local Walmart.....and they are asking almost 5 bucks a quart!! The gas is running just as smooth as the Coleman now, and the engine seems to have a little more power. I guess the rough running was just because the engine wasn't broken in at the time. So it seems that Coleman runs better for breakin, but not much different than gas after that. I finally have a handle on tuning these things. Nice brown colored plug and smooth running. Thanks for all the help guys..
Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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03-17-2008 03:23 PM  12 years ago
Eury

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Dover NH USA

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It seems like they're phasing out the gallon cans at Walmart, My local one still has them, but they aren't replenishing them. So every time I go in, I buy a couple gallons to stock up. I'm up to 6 so far. I'm going to end up with their whole stock and have about 12 at the rate I'm going. Should last me a while in my new Predator. Nick Crego

Citizen #0168
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03-18-2008 10:11 PM  12 years ago
Quick Worldwide

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Coopersburg, PA

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What's the reason?
WOW that's the first I heard of this...I am going to clean out the local retailers shelves.
Maybe I can corner the local market...LOL

I just don't like the gasoline smell in the car...

Maybe I can buy 55 gallon drum from Coleman...
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03-18-2008 10:14 PM  12 years ago
Eury

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Watch out, I've bought 10 gallons, today I bought 5, and they had the manager come over and check my ID before they would sell it to me. I'm sure that I'm on some homeland security list now.

Other places are still selling the gallons, but it's a lot more ($10 vs $6.60)
Nick Crego

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03-19-2008 02:01 AM  12 years ago
turbo35

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Southern Ohio

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The reason Walmart and other retailers are not selling Coleman fuel (white gas) by the gallon is ..... it is one of the main raw materials that is used in crystal meth labs all over the world.BEAM TEAM USA
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03-19-2008 02:06 AM  12 years ago
bubba01

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NE Pennsylvania

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Sad but very true!
Just type coleman fuel in your search engine and you should see several links for warnings. I tried posting a link but it wouldn't take?

Here's one link...

http://www.co.san-diego.ca.us/deh/hmd/pdf/coleman.pdf

Cop: Sir, have you been drinking? Driver: Why? Is there a fat girl in my backseat?
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03-19-2008 02:08 AM  12 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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Like I said earlier, it will have to be regular gas for me from now on. I'll just have to deal with the smell. I'll put a little racing scent in a gallon to tone it down a bit. I'll have some grape gas...Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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03-19-2008 01:43 PM  12 years ago
Quick Worldwide

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Coopersburg, PA

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STOCK UP
I wiped out our local Wal_mart of there Colemans last night..I will hit some other LOCAL sellers today...
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03-19-2008 02:06 PM  12 years ago
Eury

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Dover NH USA

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Great, now Irwin and I are both on a watch list. Nick Crego

Citizen #0168
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03-19-2008 02:59 PM  12 years ago
jschenck

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La Vista, NE.

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that exactly what I was thinking - "He bought 6 gallons in one week?!, camping my 4$$"
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03-19-2008 04:04 PM  12 years ago
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Do they do the same thing at filling stations in than US when you buy more than 5 gallons? And what about full-size aviation - think of the fuss you would create buying 100,000KG of Jet A-1 for your 747

Paul.
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