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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › 3d Max breakin needles??
08-03-2007 04:42 PM  13 years ago
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gorn

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Western Australia

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3d Max breakin needles??
Well, I must have read hundreds of posts on gasser tuning now, and they all have their opinions on what to do on break in, seeing common threads now though.
The thing is, almost all of these posts are with tuning a stock motor.
I have the 3d Max 26. Looked at the TRM take on tuning a performance 26, and they start at 1 1/2 on both needles for break in.
Thats contrary to the common 1 3/8 I read all the time.
So then, to those who have run these motors, whats your take on what worked for you?
I have decided to run synthetic from the start, I have plenty of time to break it in, no rush, and I just like the idea of a nice clean motor.
Im going with a Belray H1R. Premix oil, ratio's recommended under 125cc 32:1, and this is the ratio I was going to use anyway.
Asked the guys there about it, they run it in a 250cc GP bike, and one guy has the HPI Baja buggy with a 23cc in it, runs this, no worries.
I tried to get Honda HP2, they were out of stock!
Hence the Belray from a Honda shop lol.
My other option for ease of availability here, was Yamalube.
Didnt have the time to drive 40 mins and get it.
Other things, DDM bellmouth and airfilter, Realheli Maxum muffler.
Got the CNC carb mount.
Settings please
For the love of the hobby
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08-03-2007 04:48 PM  13 years ago
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Set the needles and run it as the instructions tell you and do not take any advice from people who run gasser engines in non-heli installations. If in doubt, go for a richer setting to start with although with 32:1 of Belray oil you will not be able to get this engine to run very rich.

Paul.
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08-03-2007 05:33 PM  13 years ago
gorn

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Western Australia

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I had no instructions from Hanson, hence my dilema lol.
So you think 1 1/2 turns out is too rich for my oil and ratio?
For the love of the hobby
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08-03-2007 05:41 PM  13 years ago
juha76

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finland

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Hanson instructions says that the needle settings for break in
are 1 1/2 open both needles.
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08-03-2007 07:07 PM  13 years ago
rbort

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Franklin, MA - USA

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Too rich
Its not gonna run right/well at 1 1/2 open each. I would revert to 1 3/8 each to start, that is rich enough and lean it from there later on.

Gas engines like to run "just right". You don't run them filthy rich like nitros in the start.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 2703D, 4393 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3455 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1982 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 907 flts
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08-03-2007 10:27 PM  13 years ago
gorn

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Western Australia

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Thanks for clarrifying the Hanson instructions Juha

Raja
I think your right.
Its always either low oil ratio and rich settings, or higher oil ratio leaner settings. Motor needs the same amount of lube either way.
Cheers
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08-04-2007 06:03 PM  13 years ago
Jon the Rooster

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Johns Island, Charleston, SC

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I'm having a hard time tuning the motor after breakin was done.
I'm new to Gassers but have an ear for tuning 2 strokes. I started @ 1 1/2 High & low & now after flying 1 & 1/2 tank fulls of gas today trying to find the perfect climbout setting, but the closest I got wasn't my initial climbout but after returning to a hover & trying a second climbout, BAMMM the thing was a Balistic Missel!!!!
After returning back to position my Third attempt wasn't there???
My Mixture settings are Scarry: 7/8 High & 1 1/8 low.
Almost seams high needs to go more.

Am I missing somthing????
and one more thing "DON'T BE AFRAID!"
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08-04-2007 07:48 PM  13 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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WAY too lean
Hopefully you have enough oil in there to cover ya!

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 2703D, 4393 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3455 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1982 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 907 flts
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08-04-2007 08:20 PM  13 years ago
Rotorwacker

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Nederland TX, USA

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Jon
Richen it a bit. I have done a lot of tuning on gas planks, convert my own from saws, tuning with props on a bench with digital tach hooked to the ignition.
The max power setting on the needle has a range, not a point! A glow motor has a sweet spot where the needle setting makes it scream,where a gas motor has "range" of maybe a half turn of the needle, where you are at full power.Stay on the rich side of this "range"
Chances are on the "missile" climbout the temps soared, then you had to bring it back down, hover, and on the next attempt,it nosed over, too lean. Richen it a tad,You may be a little lazy on the first part of run,but it will come around as the it heats up.
Good Luck, Danny
I Love RC Helis,and have the Receipts to prove it
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08-04-2007 11:34 PM  13 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Its always either low oil ratio and rich settings, or higher oil ratio leaner settings. Motor needs the same amount of lube either way.
You see that is why there are so many opposing views. I would think the opposite is true. The oil is not suppose to burn so if you increase your oil content you have to increase your fuel mixture to get the same ratio of gas to air for combustion. Those that run less oil are feeding their engine less oil. They are not increasing the fuel mixture to get the same amount of oil. Combustion is dependant on gas to air and within reason doesn’t care about the amount of oil.

Now after saying this I also agree with Raja. A gasoline engine wants the mixture right as oppose to a glow engine that normally runs sloppy rich. There is no need to run a gas engine sloppy rich for break in. However to me it is important to run an abundance of oil during break in. This is the time when the sliding surfaces are at their roughest point (new). Once they get polished off and seasoned with oil you can actually survive a lean condition for a short period. In the beginning you will just toast it if you have a lean condition.
Ace
What could be more fun?
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08-05-2007 01:21 AM  13 years ago
FCM

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Surrey, England

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I started @ 1 1/2 High & low & now after flying 1 & 1/2 tank fulls of gas today trying to find the
That is not enough time to break in the piston ring even if you are using straight mineral oil.

Go back to breaking in with some gentle flying. You will see/hear the engine settle down as the ring beds in. Then you can start trying full power climb outs etc.

If you run this engine with the settings you desribed, it will be damaged very soon.

Paul.
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08-05-2007 01:35 AM  13 years ago
Jon the Rooster

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Johns Island, Charleston, SC

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I started @ 1 1/2 High & low & now after flying 1 & 1/2 tank fulls of gas today trying to find the
That is not enough time to break in the piston ring even if you are using straight mineral oil.
I broke in the motor with 32:1 mixture & 1 & 1/2 Gall thru the motor prior to todays run, sorry I didn't mention that.
I'm now using Klotz oil @ 40:1
Man I've been turning the needles in ever so slowly. My plug is a good light brown in color too.
and one more thing "DON'T BE AFRAID!"
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08-05-2007 01:58 AM  13 years ago
FCM

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Surrey, England

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It's still not enough especially if you were using fully synthetic oil at 32:1.

I break my G230 engines in for 4 liters min. using 36:1 mineral chainsaw oil. Even after doing this, the engine is still not fully broken in. Those piston rings are made of hard material.

Paul.
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08-05-2007 11:41 AM  13 years ago
gorn

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Western Australia

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Got her started today, 1 3/8 on both, it wont stay running.
Idle was too high, turned it down a bit, then wouldnt start at all.
I tried everything from 1 3/8 to just over 1 1/2.
Same thing really, I could get it to start, took a while each time though, and then even with a bit of throttle wound on, it would just splutter and die.
Very frustrating, but Im sure you all went through frustrations when you first went gas.
Checked the plug, naturally it was wet.
I have the Z-Rc insulator, so its not an air leak.
Spent hours on it today, and now Im just very tired lol.
Someone needs to make an electric tool that has settings of 1/4 increments.
Slot into tuning screws, set for 1 3/8 or whatever you want, push button, done
Ahhhh dreaming now lol.
For the love of the hobby
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08-05-2007 12:40 PM  13 years ago
Jon the Rooster

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Johns Island, Charleston, SC

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Got her started today, 1 3/8 on both, it wont stay running.
Idle was too high, turned it down a bit, then wouldnt start at all.
What's your TC? My Max ran very easily @ 1 1/2 out, just a Dog tho!!
and one more thing "DON'T BE AFRAID!"
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08-05-2007 01:00 PM  13 years ago
gorn

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Western Australia

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TC??
I think I have it worked out now though.
After looking at it on the bench, a few stupid newb mistakes lol
For the love of the hobby
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08-05-2007 04:04 PM  13 years ago
Jon the Rooster

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Johns Island, Charleston, SC

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TC??
Throtle Curve
and one more thing "DON'T BE AFRAID!"
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08-05-2007 04:27 PM  13 years ago
gorn

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Western Australia

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Of course lol
0 20 22.5 25 100
For the love of the hobby
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08-05-2007 04:34 PM  13 years ago
2Pac

rrApprentice

Jax. Fla. USA

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Wow...that thing climb up from 25..lol
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08-05-2007 05:09 PM  13 years ago
gorn

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Western Australia

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Do you even own a gasser before commenting about throttle curves for them?
And yes they do.
For the love of the hobby
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