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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterFuel-Helicopters New or Limited ActivityQuickWW › Need some help with my ESC.. trying to figure this out..
08-03-2007 04:02 PM  13 years ago
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Motavar

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Lower Saucon, PA

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Need some help with my ESC.. trying to figure this out..
After a crash & rebuild I took my helicopter up for some testing.
2 mins into the flight I lost power and Auto'd straight down. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why she lost power as everything was running perfect. I finally had the chance to rebuild my servo gears and bring her out for testing yesterday and here is what happened.

(Some background first... this is a Sweet 16v2 running 4s2p x 2 8000mAh lipos with 450kv motor. I have a Castle Creations 85v ESC. I run an external BEC).

I powered her up at about 75% power on my driveway and let her sit just slightly light on the skids. Everything was fine for 5 mins. I brought her up in power a bit and hovered her for about a minute about an inch or two off the ground then put her back down on the driveway. I ran another 3 mins light on the skids and went to power her up to go about 5 inches off the ground and she lost power.

Seems that as I powered up a bit the esc cut my power. I still had servo control. I moved the throttle down and back up and the esc kicked on again. I tried again to power her up and she was fine... a min later another quick blip and she powered down.

After that she was fine for the next 6 mins just running her light on the skids and doing small hovers about 4 inches off the ground.

These batteries are connected with a Y connector. They are fresh charges and each one was balanced twice before the flight to double check everything.

I never go more than 85% power on my throttle.
Is there an easy way for me to determine if the power is being cut due to draw by the motor with this esc or is there an easy way for me to determine if the ESC is not seeing my Lipo output correctly and is cutting the power?

I really do not want to fly now as it is very dangerous to have a helicopter just cut-out on me. Not to mention expensive to repair. Any of you guys come across this problem?

One more thing..
The last crash I did land on my side and lost the little programming LED that shows status of things but the rest of the ESC looks okay. Just the little plastic cover over the led popped off so it doesnt light up. I see no damage or loose parts that would cross connect any wires. Solder joints look okay. I'm baffled.

Any advice would be appreciated (except telling me to ship it to castle and have them check it out. I'm not ready to go there just yet.. )
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08-03-2007 04:04 PM  13 years ago
Motavar

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Lower Saucon, PA

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Is there some undocumented thing in the ESC that would show me if it cut power due to "too much draw", "Over protection", "or not enough power"?

Wish it had some diag for this.
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08-03-2007 04:27 PM  13 years ago
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Coopersburg, PA

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Heat & cold cause effect the ESC
Summer heat & humidity can cause aradic sensitivity causing ESC cut outs. The batteries will also lose 25-30% or more of it's potential discharge.....

If some one has a better explaination please chim in on here...
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08-03-2007 04:39 PM  13 years ago
Motavar

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Lower Saucon, PA

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I really haven't had a chance to play around with it but I'll pull up the documentation and see if there is a way to turn off the Lipo power detection if possible. Really don't need the ESC turning off my motor mid flight.

I highly doubt it's draw that is shutting it off. I can't see why after a bunch of flights that the motor would all of sudden start to draw a ton of power and cause the ESC to shut her down. So I'm thinking its related to the Lipo cell power detection. You know.. when it detects less then 3v per cell.

Do they make any products that can sit in-line between the ESC and Motor to tell you if you your top power draw and power history? So you can see how things are performing through the whole flight?
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08-03-2007 04:50 PM  13 years ago
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LET'S CHECK THE DRAW...
You can call Castle & speak to there tech people....We ALSO have an Eagle TREE AMP DRAW TESTING EQUIPMENT that we use all the time..we can check it out with your machine....it takes a one minutes to set up....
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08-03-2007 04:54 PM  13 years ago
JEEPWORLD2002

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BLUEBELL PA USA

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yes Irwin has a amp draw checker. the eagle tee data reader. it reads draw. rember with bigger blades and bigger pinion you hewli will draw more. I would sit down and do the conversion on paper what the kv amp out of batt and so on I dont know the equasion but its out there. What are your flight times ? are you still swinging 600s ? what kinda amps are you putting back into the battery ? How hot is the esc and motor getting ? You can also turn off the over current protection and I dont think there is a way to turn off the lipo detection but you can always trick it and say its one cell less then the 8s you are using but reguardless my heli doent run below 3.5v per cell. so it running close to 3.0 to 3.5 is pointless seeing your heli wont have any power after its at 3.7 nonimal volts anyhow .there is not any energy left in the cells.Trex600n Trex500 Mikado LoGo5003d// Hacker, CastleCreations,Ys 50, JR 7703d/8900, Radix
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08-03-2007 06:43 PM  13 years ago
Motavar

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Lower Saucon, PA

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Thanks for the advice!
Cool, if I can borrow the Amp checker that would be a big big help!

JW had me thinking though..
I did change out the motor pinion to spin the blades a bit more. I'm wondering if that increased the draw just enough to put her over the edge.

The first time it happened was 2 minutes into flight and I did push up up pretty fast. So there was load. (this is with idle up)

The 2nd time I saw it was during testing, not on idle. I came up from 75% to a hover quickly. Hmm.. so maybe it is draw. Soo weird though. I would think I would see this happen each time I go up though. Well..its been hard to replicate because I really don't want to push her up too fast because if she gets too much height I'm scared she will die, drop, and bust some parts.

Well.. let me start with the AMP checker.
Let me price out some circus nets too! hahah

Thanks again for everyone's advice.
You guys are always helpful.
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08-03-2007 07:05 PM  13 years ago
JEEPWORLD2002

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BLUEBELL PA USA

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draw is something that should nt change all that much. the load the motor put on a batt is a set fingure. yes changing the pinion does change the load but we run all the way up to a 16 tooth pinion. but 1 tooth is not going to put it over the top. we will have to check the draw tomorrow.Trex600n Trex500 Mikado LoGo5003d// Hacker, CastleCreations,Ys 50, JR 7703d/8900, Radix
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08-03-2007 07:30 PM  13 years ago
JuanRodriguez

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The Villages, Florida

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The 2nd time I saw it was during testing, not on idle. I came up from 75% to a hover quickly. Hmm.. so maybe it is draw. Soo weird though
First of all, I have little to no experience with the electric stuff.

That being said, I thought that ideally, you should run your settings as close to 100 percent as possible and then adjust your headspeed by the gearing ?? As I "understand" it, doing so will keep both the motor and ESC cooler than running it at say, 75 % ??
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08-03-2007 07:49 PM  13 years ago
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Coopersburg, PA

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NEVER 100% THROTTLE...
Juan the max setting is 85% at the top OR 100%...If we push full throttle at 85%...the most it will go to is 100%...If we set -up to 100% & put it 100 % it will exceed to 110-115% & will blow something....

Normal position is linar curve 0-75 at hover to 85% AT THE TOP..
Stunt 1 is a v curve 85 at high & low stick & 75 at hover...

iRWIN
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08-04-2007 11:09 PM  13 years ago
JEEPWORLD2002

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BLUEBELL PA USA

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well we checked it out and the amp draw is at 20-30 amp hovering. And spiked to 65-70 amps, which is great with 600s. we could not duplicate the cut out. We did now ever notice that the power plugs are loose. so he was going to do some repairs.Trex600n Trex500 Mikado LoGo5003d// Hacker, CastleCreations,Ys 50, JR 7703d/8900, Radix
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08-05-2007 02:14 PM  13 years ago
Motavar

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Lower Saucon, PA

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Schooled! (lol)
The guys at QWW schooled me

Thanks again for letting me use the EaglTree to check everything out. They were able to prove out that AMP draw was not an issue. It does suck that I couldn't replicate the issue. They looked at me like I was sniffing CA glue when they had the heli hovering in the parking lot. lol!

Joking aside.. they did point out that my motor connectors were a bit loose. So I crimped the $#!+ out of them when I got home. Also pointed out that my cyclic forward control was off my flatspot a bit so I replaced one of my control shafts. Balance was off so I'm fixing that up today. Also one of my control arms for the flybar was reversed (I had the short side of the arm attached to the swash plate where I should have had the long arm attached. I must have reversed them from last crash).

They also spotted the fact that I was weed wacking my yard with the tail blades. So the plastic tail I use (yeah i'll get carbon ones later) was very soft and flexible from all the times I hit the tall grass in my yard. I think Irwin felt sorry for me that I didn't have time to cut my yard any more due to the fact that I play with the helicopter all the time. So he spotted me a set of tail blades and told me to stay out of the grass.

Hey Irwin if you're reading..
I GOT RID OF THE DIVING BOARD!! lol
(inside joke)

So now I have to look at lipo output and connectors to make sure that wasn't causing the cutout. I really like that eagletresystems in-line monitor. I'm prob going to pick one up.

-Motavar
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08-05-2007 03:49 PM  13 years ago
JEEPWORLD2002

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BLUEBELL PA USA

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you had the hiller arm reversed. AS far as the eagle tree that # should never change. unless your changing the pinion and or blade size. I would take a step down. Just see how she reacts. You will probally like the increase in head speed. but you really want to balance everything Get new blades. think about going back to the shorter flybar. check all spindles shafts and oring and bearings. Something was causing the head to wobble. possibly to tight gear mesh or bent shaft. But Its take time to check everything, and make sure its perfect. OH BTW the heli tach thing Irwin has, does have a amp guage built in. Its bigger the the eagle tree but I figure it has all the tools you will need inc servo tester batt checker and best of all the tach.Trex600n Trex500 Mikado LoGo5003d// Hacker, CastleCreations,Ys 50, JR 7703d/8900, Radix
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08-05-2007 04:02 PM  13 years ago
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Coopersburg, PA

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KEEP IT SIMPLE...
For the local customer that we have the opportunity to do a final pre-flight & test hoover it is our goal to make sure the machine leaves our shop flying without vibration & locked with a good functioning electronics....

This is the best service we can give our customers. It is for the pilot & mechanics alway to equal this first flight performance after any repair or maintance done.

The machine is not complicated nor are the electronics designs requiring a PHD from MIT....Just duplicate & follow the instruction that made the machine fly so nicely at first flight...
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