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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Tail kicks when throttle pump problem......
08-02-2007 03:15 PM  13 years ago
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Jay1

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Colorado Springs

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Tail kicks when throttle pump problem......
I have a 450 where I have checked all belt tension, lubed belt for static but when I pump the trottle, the tail kicks sideways pretty bad sometimes. There is no vibration wag. Smooth hoovers.

Pitch on head is at 7 degrees midstick. Using align 35amp with soft heli setup. 11t on 430L. The rudder servo JR3800 does not bind and throws tail pitch max both left and right. DX7 on 100% for rudder controls. No revo mix. Using 401 with about 85% and limit to 0. It is in HH position.

Hopfully I gave as much info to help me solve this. I have messed with it for days to make sure there is no slopp anywhere but same issue. Thanks

Jay1
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08-02-2007 03:30 PM  13 years ago
ckoelliker

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St. Simons, GA

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The first thing I would try is more head speed. Put on the thirteen tooth pinion and see if it helps. I have found that with the t-rex's that if you do not get the head speed high enough, the tail just does not have enough power to overcome the torque of the main blades. If that has no effect, then I would start to look for mechanical problems, binding, etc.
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08-02-2007 04:09 PM  13 years ago
Jay1

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I wondered about that. Thanks for giving me that hint. I will try that this evening.
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08-02-2007 05:33 PM  13 years ago
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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First of all, I started out on a Trex 450XL with your exact setup and I never experienced any problems with the tail kicking out. Infact. What does your throttle curve look like?
Pitch on head is at 7 degrees midstick
limit 0
your limit shouldnt be at 0? that would give you virtually no throw on your rudder. and yet you say the tail throws to maximum pitch both sides? that cant be as the limit adjustment controls the maximum throw that the gyro will apply to the tail pitch. your limit should be maximized such that the pitch controls dont bind in the tail. is it at 0 or 100?

you need to set your heli up right first.

you are probably applying big time pitch at full collective. that will always give you some tail problems using the 11t pinion. using a larger pinion will help to alleviate the problem but you're just sugar coating sh!t. you need to set it up right in the first place.

Judging from the information in your post, you dont know how to properly setup the head which would lead me to believe that you dont know how to setup the tail either. I apologize if I am off the mark here...

I would suggest that you find someone with your helicopter who can go over the setup with you and make sure everything is correct.
Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!
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08-02-2007 05:33 PM  13 years ago
Pistol Pete

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Seffner, FL

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second the comment provided the kick is to the <left when viewed from behind.~~Enjoying the hobby one flight at a time~~
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08-02-2007 05:46 PM  13 years ago
Jay1

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Colorado Springs

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When viewed from behind, the kick goes to the right when a throttle pump is preformed.

Yes I am still learning. There isnt anyone around me that has heli experience. The local hobby shops dont have the knowledge needed to correct tunning problems. They are tooooooo much in planes only.

I am learning on my own and thats why I post to ask these question. I meant the delay limit on the 401 is set to 0. On the tx, the rudder is sett to 100%. The 401 is set to limit any binds on the rudder.

I was told to have at least 6-7 degree at mid because of the thinner air here in CO.

What should my throttle curve look like?

Again sorry for sounding like I dont have a clue. I am learning.
Thanks for any inputs here.

Jay1
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08-02-2007 06:03 PM  13 years ago
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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Asking questions is what its all about here.

Keep with the pinion you have. Set your throttle curve as follows:

Normal Mode: 0-50-80-100

you set it like that because if you run your speed control too slow, it will over heat and fry itself on you and usually at the most inoppurtune time.

Idle up: 100-95-90-95-100

Some people (myself included) dont bother with the "V" shape to the curve. I just run 100% across the board. The reason for the V shape was for nitros. If left at 100% all the time, you could overspeed and blow your engine with certain pitches applied.

Make certain that the ball on the tail servo horn is as close as possible. I think the number to shoot for is 8mm from center of ball to center of servo spline.

Then make sure that you have 0 subtrim and 0 trim in the rudder. Now make certain that your servo horn is 90 degrees to the boom or control rod. Do the same at the tail rotor. Make sure everything is 90 degrees when the rudder is centered. It only takes a hair of misalignment here to cause blowouts.

Thin air aside....

Set your pitch up such that you have 0 at midstick and 10/-10 at either extreme. The thin air just means youll have to carry a bit more collective, maybe. Several people here live at high altitudes and have no problems. Ive even read threads from people who live at or near sea level and have expierenced no problems after flying at a site at high altitude.
Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!
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08-02-2007 06:34 PM  13 years ago
Jay1

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Colorado Springs

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Wow, that is some of the best advice yet. You explained it pretty clear. I will try those settings this evening. All this time I may have had too much collective at 7 degrees at midstick. I have a good feeling that this will correct the problem. I will post updates after these modifications.
Thanks.
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08-02-2007 08:33 PM  13 years ago
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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FYI, at normal density altitude (sea level on a pretty good day), hover can be achieved at or close to 4-5 degrees of pitch....assuming you have a reasonable headspeed. The higher the headspeed the lower the pitch required and the more authority the tail will have too.Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!
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08-03-2007 06:44 AM  13 years ago
Jay1

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Colorado Springs

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I was able to do everything you said and now I have to kick out when I do the throttle pumps!

On the throttle curve I put 0-25-50-80-100 and what you said for the Idle up curves. I had to do a +1/-1 at mid stick so that I get full extremes of pos and neg at +10/-10. Tail servo is at 9mm from center of spindle of servo and center of ball link. This is exactly 90% from boom with 0 pitch on the rudder blades and 0 sub trim for the rudder on tx.

I am using the 315 fiber blades by Align.

I kept the 11t and it is doing great! I will be flying tomorrow for sure!
Thanks again for your input and now I have learned a whole lot more in fine tunning this machine.

Jay1
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08-03-2007 12:51 PM  13 years ago
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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So, if i read that right, you have no more kicking out when pumping the throttle?

Glad I could help.
Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!
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08-03-2007 05:29 PM  13 years ago
Jay1

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Colorado Springs

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So, if i read that right, you have no more kicking out when pumping the throttle?
Yes, you are correct. Going to do some flying today. Thanks Again!
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