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07-30-2007 09:35 PM  13 years ago
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DKTek

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Melbourne, FL-USA

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Turbine oil?
I have checked the closest airports and the only oil they carry is BP-2380 turbine oil. It meets the same MIL specs as the shell500. Any reason why I shouldn't use BP oil? Thanks guys,

Dan
The beatings will continue until morale improves...
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07-30-2007 10:06 PM  13 years ago
Richard

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Scottish Borders, U.K.

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No problem using the BP, I have used it many times without any problems.

Richard
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07-30-2007 10:29 PM  13 years ago
A&P

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Chandler, AZ

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You can order Aeroshell 500 from Aircraft Spruce.

Here
Don't Panic
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07-30-2007 10:47 PM  13 years ago
Coolrunnin

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Manchester U.K.

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BP2380 actually improves on the specs of Aeroshell 500 having seen the technical documents for each (not really important for total loss lubrication though I wouldn't have thought!).

2380 works absolutely fine in JetCat engines and mixes well with Jet-A1. If you want to buy in bulk you might get a better price for a 24 quart case. Worth asking about for sure as it has a 10 year shelf-life for full scale Aero use, if I remember correctly, so you aren't going to waste any by storing it!
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07-31-2007 12:57 AM  13 years ago
DKTek

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Sweet, thank you all for the response. I called Bob W. at JetCat USA and he said the only downside is the $15/qt. Aeroshell 500 is less than $10/qt.

It seems crazy to me but I paid $18 for 2.34 gallon container of klean-Strip 1-k kerosene and Jet-A was $5/gal. I figured it would be the other way around...

Dan
The beatings will continue until morale improves...
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07-31-2007 02:50 PM  13 years ago
Coolrunnin

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Manchester U.K.

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I wouldn't beat yourself up over that price for Jet-A. I've actually been stopped from legitimately buying Jet-A1 from the local airfield due to customs regulations...

I was told by them (very politely) "Due to Customs regulations in the UK it is illegal to sell Jet-A1 for uses other than in full-scale aircraft. You need to present either the aircraft or the original registration document before you can buy fuel!"

Got to love Customs some times
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07-31-2007 03:13 PM  13 years ago
FCM

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Surrey, England

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I have to ask (being a complete turbine /wannabe/newby) is anyone using synthetic 2 stroke oil in their turbine? I have read a post somewhere about this but wanted to know if you guys have ever tried it.

Paul.
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07-31-2007 04:15 PM  13 years ago
DKTek

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Paul, I'm still waiting to light the fire for the first time. But I think I read that as well during a search. I think it was an old post. I'd rather follow manufactures recommendations if possible. Too much money to risk by cutting corners.

Dan
The beatings will continue until morale improves...
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07-31-2007 04:43 PM  13 years ago
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Yes, I suppose so it's just that it would be so much cheaper and easier to buy than turbine oil.

I want to see video of that XLV cameraship once you get it flying with the turbine

Paul.
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07-31-2007 05:28 PM  13 years ago
Helihover

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Norway

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I asked JetCat this very question, as getting turbine oil here in Norway is a bit cumbersome. The answer was quite simply; don`t use anything BUT genuine turbine oil i JetCat turbines. Can`t be clearer than that.

For me its turbineoil all the way on my PHT-3 (which is the same as the US HP-5).
Tried planks, but after all, wood is best on the bonfire.
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07-31-2007 05:51 PM  13 years ago
Coolrunnin

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Manchester U.K.

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The two-stroke oil information probably comes, originally, from Wren owners.

Wren MW54 instructions say that you can use a TCW-3 synthetic marine 2-stroke premix in their engines if you cannot find Turbine oil.

Wouldn't risk it in a JetCat though just in case
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07-31-2007 07:06 PM  13 years ago
mcfast

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Quebec Quebec Canada

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I use synthetic 2 stroke oil (MOTUL 800) and the temp stays nice and low.
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07-31-2007 07:58 PM  13 years ago
sparkyman

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uk

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..I'm using Quicksilver (Mercury Outboard) Premium 2-Stroke Oil (TCW-3 @ £5.25 per litre) @ 5% mix in my PJW-R... its ashless, so no accumulations inside the combustion chamber or on moving parts.......it also burns without any visible smoke or any additional smell to the kerosene (SEC28 Heating oil @ £0.42 per litre). Turbine internals are spotless - cant fault it at all....in fact I'm sure Peter Jakodofsky advised me to use it when I bought the unit nearly 3 years ago ???.

There has been a number of posts on this Oil topic - the "true" Turbine oils were designed for recirculatory lubrication systems, not total loss (like our minaiture turbines), the only downside I've read about is that they're carsogenic when burnt (but I suspect all hydrocarbons are to a greater or lesser extent, including the 2T Oils ?) - maybe these Turbine Oils are more so, as they have specific synthetic additives which were never designed to be burnt, let alone inhaled due to the unlikely occurance of humans within close & continued proximity of Turbine Exhaust - I guess only the Oil manufacturers chemists will be able to give you a definitive answer on the toxicity issues.

My own research on the subject found flyers using a) Oils that were readily available to them; b) Oils recommended by the Turbine manufacturers; c) Oils others has reccomended, largely in that order. If you use a particular oil repeatedly, without problems, then I guess you tend to continue using it.

I was away from home once, ran out of fuel/oil mix and had to shop locally for both. The Kerosene was no problem, but I couldn't find any Quicksilver so opted for a high quality motorcycle (& expensive) racing 2T oil, thinking I was covering the lubrication issue - I only ran two tanks through the Heli - it spluttered on start-up, ran with visible blue smoke and on shutdown/cooling gave huge blue puffs of smoke than drifted downrange across the field. I stopped using it, fearful of gummy deposits inside the chamber, and gave it to a farmer (who put it in his tractor !)

Anyway, thats just my own experience of oils - hope the insight may help you reach a decision....
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08-01-2007 02:16 AM  13 years ago
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Very interesting. I hope be be a Wren owner soon. I get easily buy Motul 800 here and I am sure it will be cheaper than turbine oil.

From my full size turbine experience, I can remember that turbine oil is quite thin i.e. low viscocity compared to most 2T synthetic oils. It's main properties are no coking as it only has to lubricate ball and roller bearings but it has to do this at high temperatures.

So, maybe 2T oil is better suited for use in a total loss oil system?

I can remember going to a model jet meeting in the UK some 7-8 years ago and there was a turbine kit manufacturer selling home build turbine kits that used 3 in 1 machine oil as a lubricant! He was doing good business from the look of things as many of the fixed wing turbine flyers were interested in doing away with the turbine oil expense.

Paul.
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08-01-2007 05:46 AM  13 years ago
seattle_helo

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Seattle, WA USA

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Guys, the price of oil is negligible and I would certainly not stray from whatever the manufacturer specifies just in an attempt to save a small amount of money. As for the total loss environment of our small engines, it's true that turbine oil was not designed for that type of use. However, from a health standpoint, it's safe to say that no matter what oil we use, everything emanating from the exhaust nozzle is carcinogenic.

Dan, you'll have excellent results with that BP-2380 in your JetCat.

nick
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08-01-2007 02:16 PM  13 years ago
Mark Spies

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Houston & LaPlace

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I agree with Nick, why would you want to use something else other than what the manufacturer would say to useUnless you know something they don't....Team Can't Get Right Starwood Models
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08-01-2007 07:20 PM  13 years ago
optikaman

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EnglishTown N.J.

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I agree with Nick, why would you want to use something else other than what the manufacturer would say to useUnless you know something they don't....

ECSH / Vario Canada MoBB PowerCat field rep
That is a great question Mark Spies, i can only guess that all the new guys and some of the less experiance turbine owners can only think of the 3 to 5 dollars that will save on a 5 gallon conatiner of fuel. And lets not forget that if you deviate from the manufacturers instructions and need service while you are still covered under warrenty you may be hit with a nice repair bill if the oil you saved 5 dollars on has caused your injectors to clog up or even to have your bearing to prematurly fail.

http://oilstore.stores.yahoo.net/aerturoil560.html
http://oilstore.stores.yahoo.net/bpturoil231q.html
http://oilstore.stores.yahoo.net/mobiljetii1qt.html

Alan
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08-01-2007 10:30 PM  13 years ago
MattJen

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UK

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hang on guys

i think you are scare mongering uneccessarily,

Jetcat may say use BP oil, but here in the UK one of the main dealers Motors and Rotors recommends Mobil Jetoil.

I know of others who use hydralic oil, and i spoke to peter Wales yesterday who uses 2 stroke oil,

SO i think it is uneccessary to you have to use what the manufacturer recommends, as long as the oil is correct and will do the job which is lubricate the bearings, then why spend more than you have to and pay for a brand or name.

For the record - i use Mobil jetoil, @ 5%

I also use a hydraulic oil @5% when i cannot buy my other brand.
All The Best
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08-01-2007 11:38 PM  13 years ago
Coolrunnin

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Manchester U.K.

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The only differences I have heard of which might concern our use of turbine oils is that some reportedly mix better with Kerosene/Jet-A1 than others, depending on additives I assume. Other than that most aviation lube and fuel products are made to meet or exceed standards so should not differ too much between brands as far as model use is concerned

P.S. I only use 2380 as I can get it cheaper than other turbine oils
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08-04-2007 03:32 AM  13 years ago
DKTek

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Melbourne, FL-USA

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Interesting stuff guys.

Paul, I'll post vids and pics when I can . Check the gallery from time to time. I just got off the road and I'm leaving again for another month. I don't have very much time to devote to AP,for now, due to work but I am still working it when I can. The heli is ready to start on throttle curves though and I'm only lacking a C02 extinguisher for the Cat's first start by me.
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