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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-AlignT-REX 450 › Question on FFF and Pirouette?
07-30-2007 08:20 PM  13 years ago
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dct

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San Angelo TX.

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Question on FFF and Pirouette?
Should you be able to do a Pirouette when in fast forward flight?
My Trex would only go too about 90* when I tried a fast fly by and then throw in a pirouette.
I do use a Hitec 56 carbon gear for a tail servo and a Futaba 401 gyro.
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07-30-2007 08:50 PM  13 years ago
SSN Pru

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Taxachusetts

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yes, it should pirouette in FFF...

increase your dual rates over 100% to increase your piro rate, its too slow.
Stupidity can be cured. Ignorance is for life!
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07-30-2007 10:47 PM  13 years ago
bilbo

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Boston, MA - USA

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It depends on your head speed. If you're running a low HS then your tail rotor is also spinning slower, which means it has less authority and may not be able to pirouette the heli while in FF. I don't know what the cutoff would be, and it depends on the gearing as well, but certainly if you're running 2800 or higher HS it should be able to pirouette in FF. Make sure you're getting full travel on the tail rotor pitch, and that your tail pitch control rod doesn't flex too much under load.
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07-31-2007 12:54 AM  13 years ago
dct

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San Angelo TX.

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I'm running the stock SE main and tail gear. 430L motor with 12T pinion . I think my head speed with the throttle curve I'm using would be about 25 to 2700 rpm's
I'm running the carbon tail blades. My travel is all the way to the hub ,I am running all metal tail and metal blue tail gears. The belt is fine. I was going down wind with 15 mph tail winds. I had just come out of a high stall turn up wind and came down to gain speed. I have never tried a high speed pirouette before.
When not going full speed the pirouette fine. After landing I checked belt and tail all is fine. I'm guessing it's my Hitec 56 servo that doesn't have the power ?
**Now doing Forward Flight And EASY 3d! And having a Ball !!**
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07-31-2007 02:24 AM  13 years ago
bigdog714

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Rochester, MN U.S.A.

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With a 12T pinion your at 2547, you need to use a 13T, that will bring you to 2761, a 14T is 2972, I fly a 15T at 3184 and cut it back to 90% at 2864, that way when I feel a little wild or its windy, I kick it back to 100%, I flew my MX450xs at 3480 for a few days, wild!!!MD 800
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07-31-2007 05:08 AM  13 years ago
turboomni

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East of the Equator

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When running close to 3000 head speed what do your run times end up being?
Like 4 1/2 minutes?
Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them
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08-02-2007 12:20 PM  13 years ago
CAMOMAN

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Jasper, Texas USA

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did you ever figure out why you tail was stalling...mine has just started that also and I can't find anything wrong either....It has always worked fine before.......
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08-02-2007 05:10 PM  13 years ago
bilbo

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The numbers that bigdog gave relating pinion size to head speed depend on which motor you're using. With my Align 430XL motor, a 12t pinion gives me around 2800 or 2900 RPM depending on what throttle curve I use. An 11t gives me around 2600.

At 2600 RPM the heli can barely do a pirouette in medium speed forward flight, and not in high speed forward flight. Up near 3000 HS it can do piros while moving faster. So if you're right that your HS is somewhere between 2500 and 2700 then the fact that you can't piro in FFF may not indicate any problem.
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08-02-2007 07:32 PM  13 years ago
CAMOMAN

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Jasper, Texas USA

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Then if that is so I am running an 11th on the newer 430l....but I have been doing loops and flips but just yesterday tried to piro in pretty fff and noticed it would not piro until I slowed down....I had not noticed it before and made me think something is wrong but I can't find anything wrong......it was very fish.......my battery was the FP 2170 3s.....in 90% idle up 1..I will go to 100% idle 2 this afternoon and see what happens..........
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08-02-2007 07:52 PM  13 years ago
bilbo

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Hi Camoman, I'm not sure how different the 430L is from the 430XL, but if it's similar then you're probably only getting 2600 or 2700 HS with an 11T pinion, so in my experience it's normal that it can't do a full piro in FFF. You could try removing your vertical tail fin, which should make it somewhat easier to do piros in FFF.
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08-02-2007 08:25 PM  13 years ago
CAMOMAN

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Jasper, Texas USA

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Bilbo...........I did just change the verticle and horiz. fins to the yellow plastic ones from the black carbon one for visibility.....but If I remember correctly that heli used to piro any time I gave it the input..but maybe with the fins having a little more surface area it might be causing the problem.....I am just going to go to 100 percent this afternoon and see if that matters before I change the fins again....might jusst paint the carbon on orange or something.......I guess I might put the 12 th back on this weekend and see......
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09-22-2007 02:54 PM  13 years ago
Darren Lee

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Woodstock, GA

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Have you solved this problem yet? I used to have the exact same issue, and the tail mod described here http://www.runryder.com/t374039p1/ seems to be the answer!

The CRM effect of the tail grips creates a huge resistance to pitch changes. This coupled with the high blade loading when trying to turn against the mains in FFF is too much for the servo to handle, IMO.
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09-22-2007 04:32 PM  12 years ago
dct

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San Angelo TX.

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I'm running a Hitec 56 on the tail..
And I also had a bad bearing .
I'm just not doing FFF and pirouettes these days.
I'm thinking it just the 56 servo .
Oh,, IMO and I know there are going to be a lot of them!
I don't like drilling and adding weights to a tail setup that is already turning over 12,000 rpm's !! Maybe it's just me,, but I think this is just asking for trouble down the road!
**Now doing Forward Flight And EASY 3d! And having a Ball !!**
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09-22-2007 05:24 PM  12 years ago
Darren Lee

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Woodstock, GA

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Yea, but you can do the mod without drilling new holes. I just use the blade bolt holes.

And, it's not your servo. I have a 9650 and it did the same thing until I modded the tail. Anyone who has not done the bench test where you take the blades off and run up the heli while trying to move the tail pushrod should do it!
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