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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › AP2000i users HELPP
08-05-2007 05:44 PM  13 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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What? Use a fan to blow them off?
Items 4,5,6,7 ect are common devices that "blow" off static in industrial applications.

http://www.electrostatics.com/products.html

So you think the moving parts don't keep generating static?? connect all the parts together and they will fill up and stop??

Do yourself a favor and visit a converting company. It won't matter whether it is a textile, paper or film converter. Static problems on these lines can kill you and they are not easy to solve.
Ace
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08-05-2007 08:28 PM  13 years ago
Angelos

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nr Oxford, OX11, UK

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Ace,
Sorry to tell you but you that your understanding of electrons is worst that primary school. You are wasting everyone’s time here with your posts. Electrons don’t get generated. They are moved which makes the potential on the tail boom higher. Naturally they want to flow to a lower potential. They will do that via the ground wire if you install one, or they will spark to an adjacent conductive part or if there is very good isolation there will be a point where the potential is too high and no more electrons will be able to move to that part.

-Angelos
Spartan RC R&D
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08-05-2007 08:37 PM  13 years ago
Autoeject

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Ashtabula, OH, USA

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Arguing with an Electronics Engineer...what could be more funMark Webber
wai-rc.com
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Outrage Helicopters
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08-05-2007 08:47 PM  13 years ago
Angelos

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Arguing with an Electronics Engineer...what could be more fun
It’s actually worst Mark... my full time job is at a research facility. A 3GeV electron accelerator. Without getting into boring technical details, just like at the size of this thing. http://www.spartan-rc.com/aerial_images/012.jpg

Therefore my comment for having a laugh with my colleagues tomorrow about the tail rotor blowing electrons off the heli. Perhaps we can use a fan to make the electrons go faster. We never thought about that.

-Angelos
Spartan RC R&D
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08-05-2007 10:12 PM  13 years ago
HiroboEric

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Los Angeles, CA.

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Can I hook up two aerials and recharge my batteries then?Eric Pacheco, AirWorksRC.com
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08-05-2007 10:15 PM  13 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Well, apparently you did not want to go to the link I provided that answered your question. Maybe others will.

http://www.electrostatics.com/products.html

Is it an argument? I thought is was a discussion.

The problem has as much to do with mechanical engineering as it does with electrical engineering. You can believe the static charge is “generated” at the tail end but it has been my experience that it more often occurs at the drive end where the chafing is the greatest in a belt drive. It really doesn’t matter where the charge is generated. Grounding all the frame parts will not stop the charge from being generated and if it doesn’t stop then there will be an increase in potential and a discharge will occur. The charge has to be bled off somewhere or neutralized by going back to where it was generated.

Sorry for wasting everyone’s time.
Ace
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08-05-2007 10:21 PM  13 years ago
Angelos

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Ace,
wake up! The blowers are to circulate the ionised air. They don't blow electrons off. Anyway, I am sure you know better than the rest of us.

-Angelos
Spartan RC R&D
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08-05-2007 11:12 PM  13 years ago
BigguyOz

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Forster, New South Wales, Australia

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No caption required

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08-06-2007 01:00 AM  13 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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The blowers are to circulate the ionised air.
That's correct. And in so doing electrons will transfer to the positive ions in the air. So are the electrons blown off? Depends on your point of view. Without the fan the ionizers are useless.

Question: how did the high concentration of ions get into the air? Did they just jump off the charged plates or did the fan blow them, you tell me?

I admit, I am not an expert on static elimination but if someone has the problem and can't solve it by grounding as you say they have another idea they can try. It doesn't matter to me it will never be my problem. I wouldn't own a belt driven tail on a gas heli.
Ace
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08-20-2007 05:27 PM  13 years ago
Morten E

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Norway

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Hello!
I have bean following this posts about the AP2000i on RR and it is weary interesting.( I haw learned a lot by following them)
Today I did mount the AP 2000i in the JR GSR, everything went well. The sensor was working the way it should.
After I did spool up the heli, it did fall a few inches several times. I did take it down and was looking at the AP2000i, 15 glitch. I did try to rewire to see if this did help but noep.
The first thing I was thinking about was grounding (not to mother earth .!!) the tail case and after that the glitch problems ver solved.
Thank you.
(I am sorry if the English isn’t perfect)

BR
Morten
Norway.
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08-20-2007 05:34 PM  13 years ago
Autoeject

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Ashtabula, OH, USA

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Your english is better than my Norwegian

Glad you've solved glitching. Some heli tail belts seem more prone to glitching than others. My Raptor would only glitch with a cheap tailbelt. The TT brand would work fine

Cheers,
Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
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Outrage Helicopters
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08-21-2007 03:04 PM  13 years ago
Morten E

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Norway

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Hello!

Today I was outside trying the AP 2000i, I did trim the helicopter as good as I could. Then I did calibrate the AP2000i, after that I did hover the heli on about 1,5 meters. The heli had a tendency to slide to the right and backwards. This sliding to the right and backwards did of course increase when I did put some more gain to the AP 2000i.(I am yousing a slider to control the gain)
It should not be that much difference between this trims, what had I been doing wrong?
I did the calibrations on the ground.
After the calibration:
I had a house about 3 meters a whey and a tree at the same distains can that have an influence on the ER sensor?
Thank You
BR
Morten
Norway.
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08-21-2007 03:57 PM  13 years ago
BigguyOz

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Forster, New South Wales, Australia

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Was the heli trying to back away from the house?Tony Stott
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08-21-2007 04:37 PM  13 years ago
FCM

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Surrey, England

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Static electricity can and is discharged into the atmosphere on full size aircraft using a thing called a static wick. This is usually made from carbon and they are positioned on the trailing edges of surfaces like the rudder, elevators and ailerons. Without these devices, the radios and radio based nav aides would not work due to the huge amount of static electricity that is generated as a large aircraft passes through the air.

So there is a basis for Ace's idea of discharging static build up into the atmosphere - it's already being done and has been for many years in the full-size aircraft industry. The issue really is - is it necessary to discharge static on our helis or can we get away with electrically bonding the main components together. The answer is we don't need to at least in most cases.

Paul.
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08-21-2007 05:56 PM  13 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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The issue really is - is it necessary to discharge static on our helis or can we get away with electrically bonding the main components together. The answer is we don't need to at least in most cases.
I contend that electrically bonding the main components together gives an avenue for the static to blead off without discharge otherwise it would never work. The bonded frame parts would continue to gain a higher and higher charge until discharge occurs. Hence the problem would not go away. The fact that many claim the method of frame bonding does make an improvement suggest to me that the charge is being blead off without a discharge.

Morten, can you trim it out even if it requires a lot of trim to get it to hold? IF so that is one option, the other is to re calibrate with the mast tipped opposite to the direction of the slide.
Ace
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08-21-2007 06:44 PM  13 years ago
Morten E

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Norway

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Hello again to you all!
I have been testing again in a place without near objects!
It is working now as it supposed to do.
Marke Webber also told me to try to hold the calibration a bit longer (I will try to find the engineering readings tomorrow) then I will try it out a bit more.
If you are night flying, does the equipment you use (Night blades, light rope and so on) have a influence in the way the AP 2000 works, I am then thinking about influence on the IR sensor?
BR
Morten.
Norway.
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08-21-2007 09:13 PM  13 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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If you are night flying, does the equipment you use (Night blades, light rope and so on) have a influence in the way the AP 2000 works, I am then thinking about influence on the IR sensor?
I suspect that even if the LED’s emitted some IR it would not be enough for the sensor to be affected.
Ace
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08-22-2007 01:08 AM  13 years ago
Autoeject

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Ashtabula, OH, USA

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I agree...the light ropes are very cool. I would run the tailboom ropes under the sensor just to be on the safe side.

Be sure to let us know how it works out. I have not heard of others trying with night equipment.
Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
Spartan RC Distributor
Outrage Helicopters
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09-26-2007 07:12 PM  13 years ago
Disciple4123

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USA

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HiroboEric, did you correct the glitching problem? I just had an accident a couple of days back, likely due to belt static charging. Additional info is located at...

http://runryder.com/t376048p1/

Perhaps the static experts can advise about this one.
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09-27-2007 05:40 PM  13 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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Perhaps the static experts can advise about this one.
Just some comments about your design:

I wouldn’t have been in a hurry to switch to 2.4 GHz with the mass of two engines to get around. Are you using the APi glitch counter? How many frame loses is it recording. With my PCM receiver if the counts are below 10 for a flight I am good to go but if the counts get above 20 I see glitching on the collective or the cyclic. Nothing that is detrimental to a safe landing but definite evidence of glitches. In each and every case when the glitching occurs I have found a loose screw / screws or a cracked frame member. That glitch counter is your safe to fly again meter. As far as I am concerned it is irreplaceable.

Back bending a timing belt is a last resort method of belt tensioning because it causes a shear stress within the belt between the tension fibers and the compounded material. The belt does not appear to me to be large enough. You now have two engines pulling on the belt so it has twice the tension pull of one. With a fixed idler pulley, as the engines pull on the belt it stretches and now becomes loose on the idler with the potential of slippage (possible creating static). It is better to have a spring loaded idler in these cases but if your belt is under designed your problems have only begun. Plastic pulleys are not usually used in high load applications FWIW.

Another issue you can run into with belt pull is overhung load. You doubled the pull of the belt but did you increase the size of the shaft and the bearing supporting the pulley? If for instance you had used two belts and placed the engines so the driven shaft was in the middle, the two belt pulls would cancel each other and the size of each belt would not have to increase. Best design is if you use no idler and take up the slack by moving the engine. Power transmission is not always a simple thing. Having the freedom of frame design makes the job easier rather than take something that was designed for another purpose and try to adapt it.
Ace
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