RunRyder RC
WATCH
 1 page 995 views Post Reply
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Condor gasser issues/questions
07-11-2007 04:07 AM  13 years ago
Topic Vote0Post 1
mnuetzmann

rrNovice

Kansas City, MO - US

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Condor gasser issues/questions
I bought a Condor from a guy in FL a while back and have just gotten around to getting it set up. After having to rebuild much of the heli I finally got it flight ready. My first issue (solved I think) was during breakin of the motor it would all of a sudden just seem to loose power above 1/2 throttle and then suddenly die. After I thought it was a bad plug so I replaced the plug - did not help. Then I started to think it was a bad solenoid... But then I noticed something the next time I went to start it. The choke lever was down... The motor was quitting because it was getting flooded. Is there a replacement for the choke/air filter than anyone can recommend? Right now I am using rubber bands to hold the choke lever in place. I would rather not have to do that.

Next issue. While hovering the heli during breakin, all of a sudden I saw a part just drop off the heli. I set it down and went to see if I could find the part and why it fell off. It was one of the landing strut stand-offs... One of the two bolts that holds on each of the two landing gear struts had SHEARED in two... OK I said to myself, you still have 3 in place. That should be fine for just hovering. I took off into a hover again and less than a minute later the other front standoff bolt did the exact same thing! Very weird. That was the end of hovering for the day. I went to the hardward store and replaced all 4 standoff bolts with a much beefier bolt. Plus, I drilled out the threads in the metal plate they screw into and instead use lock nuts to hold them on now. MUCH more sturdy.

Next issue. The Condor I have came with the 810mm Rotortech main blades (very big). It is a good thing I am tall and can still reach over and stop the blades from spinning. These blades will work great for lifting the camera mount when I do AP but I have heard it is a bad idea to try and real aerobatics with the 810 blades. What size blades should I be using on the Condor for doing 3D and aerobatics? 710? Which blades to people recommend? V-Blades, Radix, Yougblood or something else? Also, if I go from 820 to 710 do I need to change the tail blades to something else or stay with the same tail rotor blades I use with the 810 main blades?

thanks.
Mark
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
07-11-2007 04:45 AM  13 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Choke
In regards to the choke lever. Take a trip to the hardware store and buy a couple of plastic washers. Put one or two washers as needed below the screw that the choke pivots on and the problem will be solved. It will stiffen it up and will never move again.

As far as breaking bolts, sounds like you might have some excessive vibrations. Maybe the engine is not well balanced or some other high frequency part is causing this.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 2703D, 4400 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3460 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1995 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 923 flts
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-11-2007 05:45 AM  13 years ago
Excalibur

rrKey Veteran

Destination: Earth

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Hi Mark:

I respect Raja's opinion, but there is another answer. . . You don't NEED a choke.

I have been running my PGasser for two years now and haven't missed it. When I first started flying I used the choke, and had trouble with it rotating or moving when I didn't want it to. So I just got fed up one day and took it off the engine completely - and solved the problem.

If your engine is tuned properly, the first cold start of the day requires about 8 to 10 quick pulls on the starter cord (after 6 pumps on the primer bulb). After that, one pull will start the engine every time when it's warm. If you want, you can also setup your radio to rotate the butterfly valve closed all the way, pull once or twice on the rope, then open the throttle to high idle and start it.

As for sheared bolts, I've had my share (shear?) of them myself. You can kind of predict what type of problems you're going to have by the way the bird behaves. While hovering, focus on the horizontal fin and (typically) the left skid. If you see them vibrating as a blur, you've got too much vibration and will be battling all kinds of problems because of it. It is a well establish fact that the 260 engines typically produce much more vibration then the standard 231's, so keep that in mind.

Since you don't know the history of the building techniques from the previous owner, the first thing that should be checked is the run-out on the fan and clutch. Both should be in the neighborhood of 0.0015" max to help keep vibrations down. This is kind of a pain because you need to separate the upper and lower frames to do it, but you may not need to take the engine out.

Secondly, make sure your flybar and paddles are setup and balanced properly, with the flybar centered EXACTLY in the yoke and the paddles screwed in the same distance on both sides. Also, make sure they are at zero pitch to each other and the swashplate. Since you are running high quality mains, you probably don't need to balance them, but it never hurts to simply check them (you may want to check your tail blades too).

Third, you've probably heard this a million times by now, but engine tuning can make a BIG difference on vibrations. Too lean will almost always cause some amount of vibration, but by watching the horizontal fin and skids, you can tune most of this out. Do a search on this forum for Gasser engine tuning if you're not familiar with it already. Start with the HI and LO needles at 1-3/8's and work from there. Remember, run as rich as you can (within reason) to tame down vibrations and keep the motor running cooler.

Finally, if you're still having vibration problems, you may want to pull the tail boom and check to see if the torque-tube mounts have slid apart and are allowing the tube to rotate eccentrically inside the boom. The Predators are notorious for this (ask me how I know) and may need to have the tail boom disassembled, the plastic bearing retainers glued back in place (carefully), then re-assembled.

If you've done all this and still can't seem to get rid of all the vibes, then it might behoove you to take the engine out and send it to BH Hanson to have it balanced and trued. There are alot of people on this forum who swear by them. I just got my 231PUH back from them and am re-installing now for some test flights hopefully this weekend. They were GREAT to deal with, and turned my engine around in just a few days.

As for blade size, the 260 engines are probably happier with the RotorTech 720's or something similar, IF (big IF) your gear ratio is optimized for them, which it probably is not on a Condor with a 260 engine. I doubt that you would get very good 3D performance out of the bird by just changing blades, not to mention the HUGE boom you'd be trying to swing. Again, do a search on this site for gear ratios and related items. You can probably stick with 115mm or 120mm tail blades however, since the gyro controls the amount anyway.

Forgive the rambling, or if you already knew all this, but I hope some of it will help. Please keep us posted on your results - good luck!

Xcal
Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
07-11-2007 09:20 PM  13 years ago
AceBird

rrElite Veteran

Utica, NY USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
What size blades should I be using on the Condor for doing 3D and aerobatics? 710?
Why buy a Condor and turn it into a Predator??? You could have saved yourself 500 bucks buying a Predator. From 3D to camera ship, you are kidding aren’t you? It’s one or the other but not both.
Ace
What could be more fun?
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
07-14-2007 04:10 AM  13 years ago
mnuetzmann

rrNovice

Kansas City, MO - US

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Yeah you are right... I do not know what I was thinking.

I am having another problem now, maybe someone has had the same thing happen and can help. At this point the engine runs ok, but I am having a huge problem with the muffler getting FREAKING hot. So much so that there must be some expansion going on and the muffler bolts keep coming loose and I have to land before it falls off. I am running the engine pretty rich right now (about 1.5 turns out on the high end). Any more richer and the heli will hardly lift into a hover. I am running a Chevron 2 stroke oil at 25:1 but the muffler still gets REAL hot.

Any one have any ideas.... I am out of them myself.

Mark
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
07-14-2007 05:58 AM  13 years ago
Excalibur

rrKey Veteran

Destination: Earth

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Mufflers get HOT! Unfortunately that's a fact of life and running it richer won't help much. Remember, the hot gas that's being expelled into the muffler is also what's providing the horsepower for your bird, so there will be a tremendous amount of energy there. I melted part of a rag on my Predator V2 muffler after a flight a while back, and still haven't been able to get it cleaned off.

Try using split washers on the two muffler bolts to the engine. It may also help to use a high-temp silicon sealant on the threads to hold them in. After running the engine for a few minutes, carefully re-tighten both bolts with a T-handled 4mm hex wrench. Most people find this technique helps reduce muffler loosening problems.

Xcal
Camper Fuel: It's Not Just for Breakfast Anymore
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
07-14-2007 05:45 PM  13 years ago
turbogti

rrVeteran

St. Andrew, Jamaica

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Does anyone use a V1 on their predator?
My god i recieved one with the gasser i bought, can someone tell me if there is an easy or for that matter a way to install the old V1 muffler onto my engine?


I'm this close to finding the funds to buy a V3

Sorry to hijack
****Predator Gasser SE - She's Ready to rumble ***
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 995 views Post Reply
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Condor gasser issues/questions
Print TOPIC

 4  Topic Subscribe

Thursday, October 29 - 6:33 pm - Copyright © 2000-2020 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online