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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › Having major problems setting up my 500t gyro..please help......
05-27-2007 07:37 PM  13 years ago
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oysifly

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Bentonville, AR

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Having major problems setting up my 500t gyro..please help......
I am having major problems getting my gyro dialed in. I have a uncontrollable piro rate and can't get rid of it. Anyone know or have a link to set this up properly? I also run a rev max and was wondering if this could be any cause of the problem? Thanks...
Quick...here comes my wife....hide that new Heli !!!!
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05-27-2007 07:44 PM  13 years ago
R/C Speed Nut

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Galesburg, Michigan USA

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To slow the piro down you must reduce the end points of the rudder channel.
If the gyro is piroing fast as soon as it gets light on the skids the gyro probably needs to be reversed.

Mike

Funky Chicken?!!..........I thought this was how you do a piro flip!!
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05-27-2007 09:33 PM  13 years ago
rozzibandit

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Sounds to me like you need to reverse it.
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05-27-2007 09:36 PM  13 years ago
oysifly

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I can hover and slow forward flight and everything is going in the right direction......what would reversing it do? But when I give it tail input it spins so fast it'll blow the tail out.......D/r doing nothing to slow it down.Quick...here comes my wife....hide that new Heli !!!!
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05-27-2007 09:39 PM  13 years ago
rozzibandit

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Nope, do not need to reverse it. What servo are you using with it? It is not binding/traveling to far is it?
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05-27-2007 09:41 PM  13 years ago
oysifly

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Bentonville, AR

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Using 8700 and not binding out........Just totally lets loose.Quick...here comes my wife....hide that new Heli !!!!
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05-28-2007 12:01 AM  13 years ago
rozzibandit

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I do not know what chopter you have it on but if it is belt driven and you have the belt twisted the wrong way your problem will happen. I have committed this mistake. Be sure your blades are all going the proper direction.
Are you sure this is not a problem with the gyro itself? Most likely it is not.
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05-29-2007 08:56 AM  13 years ago
Futura SE

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Fayetteville, Arkansas

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The machine is a Raptor 90 SE. There is no belt to let go or anything of the sort. The problem is this. I understand how the gain works on this gyro. 51%+ is HH and 49%- is rate mode. The lower you go the stronger the rate lock and the higher you go the stronger the HH lock. I get that. Problem is I can not get the gain higher than 20% in HH or the tail wags bad. The rudder ATV is 150 both ways as it should be. The linkage spacing is 17mm as it should be between 16-18 the manual says. The rudder dual rate is 55%.

If I hover the heli at about 1600 or so head speed everything works fine. I can get the gain to 55-60% which is into the HH range and it won't wag. Turn the head speed up to 1800-1850 or so and the tail wags real bad. Overspeeding is no problem as it will do it just hovering. There is a RevMax on this heli and it is dialed in perfect. Engine runs like a swiss watch. Smooth and all. No vibes. Heli is 100% dialed in minus the gyro. If I trun the gain down to 25% or so to get the wag to stop the tail blows out and there is no piro rate, just full pitch slider as it does piros like you have never seen. I have to proportion the stick to stop the piros or it would break something. Hit the collective quick and the heli does a 1/4 piro on fast collective pops. I am sure the gain is too low to hold.

Why can't I get the gain up any without the tail wagging???

I setup the same gyro on this guys X-Cell 46 Graphite and it works flawless with an identical setup. I can get the gain way above 50 on it for HH mode. R90 has 104mm ModelSport tail blades.

This is oysifly's R90.

Norman Ross Jr.
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05-29-2007 10:00 PM  13 years ago
RCMed-x

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westpalmbeachflorida usa

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What tx and rx are you using ? I've found this gyro likes to use gyro menu in tx instead of atvs to setup if this helps
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05-29-2007 10:03 PM  13 years ago
DS 8717

rrProfessor

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Turn the rudder atv down to less than 100,i have 85 and 90 on mine.DOUGYOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED
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05-30-2007 12:17 AM  13 years ago
Futura SE

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Fayetteville, Arkansas

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The radio is a JR9303. RX is a JR S-PCM. We have tried moving rudder ATV instead of leaving it at 150 and using dual rates. Nothing. The piro rate is not the issue, the gain is.

We are totally puzzled. I am beginning to lean toward it being defective.

Norman Ross Jr.
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05-30-2007 01:19 AM  13 years ago
oysifly

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Bentonville, AR

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Norman,
Thanks for all the input you have invested to help me with this situation. I hope that other's see this post and will help get this dialed in. As of 10 minutes from now I am removing and packing to send back to Horizon for a check out and we can go from there. I'm really leaning on a Futaba gyro as my next purchase to avoid these complicated setups.......... Thanks for all that input on this thread !!!
Quick...here comes my wife....hide that new Heli !!!!
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05-30-2007 02:26 AM  13 years ago
rozzibandit

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I don't think it gets much easier than setting up this gyro. You don't have to much to worry about. In most cases
I am thinking Horizon is going to find something wrong with it.
I can't wait for mine to crap the bed. Been dieing to open it up and have a looksy at the internals.
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05-30-2007 03:43 AM  13 years ago
oysifly

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Bentonville, AR

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If it's that easy then this must be defective !! You have probably answered my question.Quick...here comes my wife....hide that new Heli !!!!
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05-30-2007 04:31 AM  13 years ago
TMoore

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Cookeville, TN

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If it's that easy then this must be defective !! You have probably answered my question.
First of all, the rudder EPA's don't need to be 150%, all the rudder EPA does is set the piro rate. The gyro should be run on the gear channel as the gyro software in the 9303 is a POS, but that's me. With an 8700 servo this gyro can work very well but it doesn't handle like a Futaba. You will have to subtrim the drift out of the gyro on the bench.

I wrote this over a year ago:


Use an arm with the ball out 16-18mm from the servo center. If you are using a JR radio and using the gyro function, bear in mind that 0-50% is like "minus" EPA/ATV so the gyro will be in rate mode. 50%-100% is "plus" EPA/ATV and will be in HH. Futaba uses something similar but they call it Axxx% or Nxxx%, A being AVCS mode and N being Normal or Rate mode. This makes a difference because ATX doesn't work like this. I had to use a pulse counter to check to make sure what is what with these values. 0-50% is like 0 to -125% and 50%-100% is like 0% to +125%. Scott Cathey advises to use 68%-75% gain in high rate. Here is a little trick. On the bench set the gain in HH to max (whatever your radio supports) and watch the gyro drift. Use "subtrim" or "center" to stop the drift. At this high rate there is going to be some drift, trust me. Flip the gyro back and forth from rate mode to HH to center the servo and watch for drift, then subtrim the drift out. Make sure the gyro is in HH to watch for drift, it won't drift in rate mode. Checking for HH mode is easy, just move the stick, if the servo snaps back to center you are in rate mode, if not you are in HH mode.

Make sure your rudder EPA/ATV is at 100% during the setup. Set the total travel on the gyro in rate mode and check for binding. No binding is the goal even if you are short on travel in one direction or another. I have another trick for that issue later. Reset your gyro gain to JR68%/FutA68% or +80 on ATX. Set the rate mode to JR25%/FutN25% or -80 on ATX. This will give you a starting point.

Once these steps are complete look at the tail blades and make sure you have the direction set correctly. Incorrect settings here will make your machine a handfull on test flights if you aren't careful. Setting the gyro sense direction is easy. Rotate the maingear in the direction of rotor rotation and watch the tail blades, make sure the tail blades are in their grips in the right direction and based on the direction of the rotation of the tail blades imagine where the air will be pushed from the tail blades when you give right tail rotor. This direction will tell you which way the body of the machine will rotate when you give right tail rotor. Now look at the servo and see which way the servo moves when you give right stick. In rate mode twist the body of the heli to the left or CCW and watch the tail servo, not the tail blades, if the tail servo moves to give right tail rotor you are set. If not, fix it. Set the rudder direction in the radio and the gyro sense on the gyro and you should be good to go.

Once all this is sorted out, look at the tail blades in rate mode and make sure that you have some pitch in them. Tail blades with no pitch will be out of trim in the hover. If you just fly in HH mode and depend on the gyro to compensate you are losing half of the effectiveness of the system. You will need to trim the heli in rate mode, mechanically by making changes to the rod length from the servo to the tail rotor. Let's say you fly the machine in rate mode and the nose is going to the left and you have to hold a lot of right rudder to keep the tail straight. At this point you may be out of adjustment on the tail pushrod or can't slide the servo along the tail boom depending on the machine you fly. Here's that trick I mentioned. Rotate the servo arm one spline in the direction you need and reset the mechanical endpoints in the gyro and you should now be able to trim the tail.

TM
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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05-30-2007 05:30 AM  13 years ago
Futura SE

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Fayetteville, Arkansas

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We have set it up every way on the earth. Nothing changes. The only problem it has is no matter what you do the tail wags bad at any RPM above 1750. Machine is dead smooth otherwise. The gyro will not tolerate gain at all. Like 20-25% in HH mode and I know HH doesn't function until you get the gain over 50%. It must be defective.

Norman Ross Jr.
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05-30-2007 06:44 AM  13 years ago
rozzibandit

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defective, you guys know what you are doing and it is not working.
evitcefed
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05-30-2007 01:39 PM  13 years ago
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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The gyro will not tolerate gain at all. Like 20-25% in HH mode and I know HH doesn't function until you get the gain over 50%. It must be defective.
Put the gyro on the gear channel. Don't use the gyro program. The statement above is contradictory. If you can't run the gyro in HH because you can't run the gyro gain where it needs to be you certainly aren't using the gyro program correctly in the radio. The gyro program doesn't work like endpoints so if you run 51% using the gyro program that's like running a little over 0% on the gear channel.

TM
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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05-30-2007 09:15 PM  13 years ago
oysifly

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Bentonville, AR

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Yes, we have not been using the gyro function. We were only using the gear ATV and can't go above 40% without serious tag wag. No where near HH mode. I'm stripping it out tonight and sending it in.Quick...here comes my wife....hide that new Heli !!!!
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05-30-2007 11:06 PM  13 years ago
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Yes, we have not been using the gyro function. We were only using the gear ATV and can't go above 40% without serious tag wag. No where near HH mode. I'm stripping it out tonight and sending it in.
You don't get it do you? The gear channel doesn't work like the gyro software. Either a plus or minus value can put the gyro into HH mode when you use the gear or aux channel it depends on the TX and the state of the reversing switch for that channel. It is only the gyro software that uses the 0-50 for normal and 50-100 for HH.

If you had read my post you would see that if you are in HH, you can input a rudder command with the stick and if you are truly in HH mode, the servo will not snap back to center. In the case of the gear or aux channels the gain values have to be either a plus or a minus value to make the gyro work in either HH mode or rate mode. This is something that you will have to determine by trial and error and you can simply reverse the channel if it doesn't work to your liking.

You really need to understand how the gyro is working and this is something that you will need to do before you can properly set it up. Using the gear or aux channels, normal setup values for HH might be +50 and -50 for rate mode. If the minus values actually put the gyro in HH mode then you can reverse the channel to make + values force the gyro into HH mode. Once you ascertain this then you can figure out what needs to happen at the TX to make the gyro boot up in HH mode. Once you confirm this, then follow the setup directions as I posted.

Bear in mind that the JR gyro has a 3 year warranty and if there is a problem JR will replace it.

This gyro won the Taiwan cup last year so I know it works.

TM
Part 107.
The only ZERO flight hour certificate in the world.
It's like getting a driver's license without the driver's test.
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