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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Stacked frame Pantera 50?
05-26-2007 10:16 PM  13 years ago
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ProModeler

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Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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Stacked frame Pantera 50?
Folks, it occurs to me I am not tapping into a very valuable resource, i.e. the folks on RunRyder, for your thoughts. The fact is, I spend most of my time within the Audacity Models forum instead.

Anyway, let me ask you something. The new Trex600N is coming online with a stacked frame contruction using carbon fiber (the same basic design can be produced in aluminum of G10, of course). This impacts our Pantera 50. Though mine is produced in injected molded plastic, because it features removeable bearing blocks, it's not all that hard for us to produce a stacked frame version of the Pantera.

The question is, do enough of folks have the desire to have an expensive-ish carbon fiber stacked frame 50-class helicopter to negate the virtues of the simple to assemble, and genuinely tough, plastic side frame model? The Pantera 50 costs $369.99, by the way.

We've pretty much stayed out of the arena of high end models such as these stacked frame designs (Miniature Aircraft, for example, build some exqusite models in this style, and they are a superb example of the breed). We have stayed away fomr building them because our quest has been to offer excellent products for a popular price, which don't need upgarde to fly aggressive 3D. The reaosning being you can fly one of our 50s pretty much without regard to the costs of crashing (unlike a 90). Anyway, even when they're made in China, these stacked frame 50s with carbon fiber frames and torque tube drives are gonna cost a lot to crash (it's not just the tube, as experienced pilots know, you'll be wiping out gears at each end on occasion as well - this adds up and the costs certainly inhibits the come hither style of 3D maneuvers, which are so appealing).

So what would you pay extra for such a model? And while we're at it, do you really want a torque tube - even though it means extra money each and every time you have a boom bending event since it's destroyed along with the boom vs. a tail simple belt drive? I mean it doesn't matter to me because I want to build what you weant to pay for. So if you'll pay I'll build it!

Folks, while this is an informal poll, unlike the giant companies, you can reach out and touch me pretty easily (I'm the owner of Audacity Models). So here's your chance to speak up and influence a product. Share your thoughts please.

So tell me what you think . . . and while you're at it, tell me what you think it would be worth. Look, it's not a trivial exercise to create a stacked frame Pantera, but it's not all that hard either since this is how our models are prototyped. Frankly, it never occured to us people would want to build prototype style helicopters all the time vs. injected molded plastic, but hey, we're here to serve you - speak up!

John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745
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05-26-2007 10:43 PM  13 years ago
BJames111

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San Diego, California

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I think we're entering a new era of r/c helicopters. The plastic frame heli, while they still fly great, is becoming less popular. As people are starting flying with carbon frame heli's (say a trex 450se) they are unwilling to "downgrade" to a plastic frame model when the decide to get a larger model.

There will always be a market for plastic frame heli's. Some people don't feel the need to have carbon, but that market is shrinking.
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05-26-2007 10:54 PM  13 years ago
Nitrohuffer

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Bloomingburg,NY

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I don't care one bit about a torque tube on a 50. The strength of a stacked frame is nice. What I would like to see is metal washouts, mixing arms, seesaws and swashes. Those are what I replace often on my evo 50 when I crash.Lungs transformed to take in water.
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05-26-2007 11:17 PM  13 years ago
RICH.L

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gentry arkansas

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I am with nitrohuffer on this one,give me a good flying belt driven heli with some extra strength in the arms,swash and linkages.
some of us don't care about all the bling,we just want to fly a decent heli out of the box that doesn't require hundreds of dolllars in upgrades.
just my cheap a$$ opinion.
rich
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05-26-2007 11:18 PM  13 years ago
GScott

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Lewis Center, OH

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Actually the 600 is not a stacked frame. As I understand a stacked frame heli it would consist of an upper and lower frame section. The 600N while being carbon fiber consists of just 2 side frame pieces. As far as how much I would say no more than $400 since the basic G10 version of the 600 will be about $410. IMHO to compete will Align it would need to be the same price as the current Pantera and probably cheaper. Where Align will kill the competition is spare parts prices and a dealer network that rivals TT.
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05-26-2007 11:30 PM  13 years ago
hornet dave

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Cedar Rapids, IA USA

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In my humble opinion:

Carbon frames on a mass market heli are like putting a ground effects body kit onto a honda civic. It may look cool to some, but the disadvantages surely outweigh the benefits for most consumers.

People are too caught up with the bling. Unfortunately, most people are unable to tell the difference between an elegantly designed heli and worthle$$ eye candy.
I got a fever! The only prescription is MORE 6HV
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05-26-2007 11:41 PM  13 years ago
BJames111

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San Diego, California

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People are too caught up with the bling. Unfortunately, most people are unable to tell the difference between an elegantly designed heli and worthle$$ eye candy.
so true. Light weight is key with the 50 class. So if carbon can save weight, it'll be a plus.
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05-26-2007 11:43 PM  13 years ago
Nitrohuffer

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Bloomingburg,NY

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The question I have is if carbon or g10 frames stronger in a crash then plastic?Lungs transformed to take in water.
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05-27-2007 01:17 AM  13 years ago
WJackson

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Smyrna, Delaware

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Fine line to walk between strength/, weight/, flexability(crash survivability) G-10 would probably be best over the carbon but if the plastic frame doesnt torque out of shape during heavy load, and offers better crash resistance,,, ever feel like your cashing your tail?????RIP Roman
Bill Jackson
AlignUSA
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05-27-2007 04:27 AM  13 years ago
Eco8gator

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Palm Beach, FL

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I doubt the frame is going to do anything for the Pantera. A clean strong head setup is going to do much more IMHO. A nice metal head block, swash, washout base, and cage will IMHO help a lot more. The tail design is pretty nice. Oh Id also put a better fin in the kit because the one supplied is limp like a cooked noodle.

Now after you do all that ^ then maybe a set of frames would be nice but only if you can somehow find a way to get a flying weight very very close to the TREX 600N... I think the TREX N main advantage over most helis is the flying weight...if you could make an Evo, Raptor, or any others as light as the 600N then they would probably be just as balistic.

Seems like lots of the manufacturers have some catching up to do.
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