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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterAudacity Models P6 Pantera - Tiger 50 › Post mortem... thoughts ??
05-25-2007 03:50 AM  13 years ago
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Walleye

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Washington, PA

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Post mortem... thoughts ??
First Pantera crash...

Welp was doing some very NON aggressive flight today (YEA GO FIGURE) and the tail simply went out... belt was taught, servo fine, the only thing I can think of is since one tail blade was gone from breaking out of the grip maybe I hadit tightened too much ???

I know the instructions say that it should just require a bit of a nudge then fall freely... mine was tight enough to need to be moved by hand but moved freely with little effort (would open from cent force)... was this actually to tight ???

I am also sending in my 601 combo just tohave hobby services check them out,b ut its either the gyro, servo, or the grip broke ??? (tail belt was taught and undamaged)

If it was more than likely the grip... bring on the metal !!!!

JOHN QUESTION FOR YOU... what size is the AUD30NL nut??? Its the one that holds the tail blade grips on (the inside of the grips)... I need to order a skinny driver for it.

Also dropped my first $100 or so on spare parts today... Made Jeremy open up the parts box... btw he sold his first Pantera yesterday !!!! Make sure he replenishes my parts stash would ya ???

Thanks !!!

Bob

Oh end to the story... it started to piro (tail loss) so I automatically (thanks to sim and practice) killed the engine and auto'd from about 30 feet or so... cost me the usual parts but practice 100% saved me my CF blades and for sure some more damage... very pleased with the way it broke John :-)
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05-25-2007 12:34 PM  13 years ago
CHARGE

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was the control rod for the tail intack?TomA positive outlook is all that is required
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05-25-2007 01:33 PM  13 years ago
Eury

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Dover NH USA

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If one tail blade is gone from breaking out of the grip, then it sounds pretty obvious what the problem was. I'd bet that at some point you inadvertently overtightened the screw that holds the tail blades on and it stressed the plastic, breaking the grip. At least that's what it sounds like from the description. Did the whole blade and screw attaching it leave the grip straight out, so it broke the grip as it slung clear? If so, I think that's what you're looking at.Nick Crego

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05-25-2007 01:34 PM  13 years ago
Walleye

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The tail rod was fine, the servo still moves free (although sending to HS for checking to be safe), belt was taught not missing any teeth...

The tail did feel a bit "sloppy" for a few flights before... used to be rock solid crisp, then was a bit (what, 1.5" ?? still noo big deal) sloppy during full power climb out... which I still think is fine but was worse than the zero tail movement I was used to...

Im thinking more and more it was either the tail grip broke, or the tail servo / gyro but for the love of GOd folks feelf ree to ask questions !!!!

Usually when I have a whoops its pretty celar what happened... my first Pantera mishap and I cant find a thing !!!
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05-25-2007 01:43 PM  13 years ago
Walleye

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EUry you maybe right... they were easy to move with fingers b ut would not flop if touched... pics uploading now...

http://www.rcminnesota.com/pix/IMG_1269.JPG
http://www.rcminnesota.com/pix/IMG_1270.JPG
http://www.rcminnesota.com/pix/IMG_1271.JPG
http://www.rcminnesota.com/pix/IMG_1272.JPG

Mind you the boom bent so I thought the grip broke when the tail blade hit the ground, but maybe not so ??

I could not find the part (but intend to since still has screw in it will try with metal detector)...

BUt that would make sense cant find it because it broke off outside of crash site ?? Also when it went it wasnt a mad fast piro, just a this isnt good sorta piro...

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH..... maybe it was overtightened (possible) and casued a stress fracture that didnt break till now...
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05-25-2007 01:50 PM  13 years ago
Eury

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I'd bet that's what happened, I've seen it happen before. Good luck finding the missing pieces, when they go, they fly off into orbit. I threw a grip last fall with the blade and everything, and someone found it about 2 weeks ago about 500 feet away from where it happened while getting a plane out of the corn field. He happened to crash almost right on top of my grip and blade.Nick Crego

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05-25-2007 02:21 PM  13 years ago
Walleye

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Yea I know for hte most part (20' circle) where I landed very hard... so I will take themetal detector out and if I dont find it... it owuld seem to verify the hypoth that thats what happened... Im pretty sure now... thanks !!!!

$80 of needed parts... so that wasnt too bad and I got to reward the LHS with a Pantera purchase... :-)
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05-25-2007 02:25 PM  13 years ago
slo_dave

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Kingsport, TN

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Is your tail output shaft bent?
If it is not then I would say the tail blade threw in flight, otherwise, if the tail hub hit hard enough to break the grip then the shaft would be surely bent.
Looking at your pics, everything else looks pretty clean. If the grip was broken on impact, you would think you'd see other surrounding damage.
If the consensus is that is broke in flight then hmmm, you would think that you would have to really torque them suckers down to cause that stress. I personally have my tail blades on the loose side. Mainly to keep from hitting them in the car and what not. They will stand up on their own but with fall with the slightest nudge.
Other flyers have their blades tight enough where you have to hold the hub with one hand and move the blade with the other...They fan out just fine under power. From your descriptions it does not sound like you over tightened them
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05-25-2007 02:46 PM  13 years ago
Walleye

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Indeed the output shaft was bent pretty bad... I will also report back what the outcome of the HS test on the servo and gyro are...
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05-25-2007 04:05 PM  13 years ago
CHARGE

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quick ? what was the battery voltage to the gyro and if you where running more than 6 volts where you using a voltage reg. TomA positive outlook is all that is required
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05-25-2007 04:10 PM  13 years ago
Walleye

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Using Arizona Regulator with full charge (did verify voltage) setup correctly...

If the output shaft werent bent it owuld have been a no brainer...
probably said above but the belt was upder nominal tension (just checked because it seemed a bit "off" and no teeth are missing from the belt even now...

Also it was a medium speed piro which may tell me it was still under a bit of power or control, but I could not arrest the piro once it started... then again this was my first nitro tail loss or crash so maybe they are slow piros ? the Trex was a son of a gun when it went... I also immediatley killed engine when I could not arrest the piro... but did not notice of something was missing frm the tail.
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05-25-2007 04:21 PM  13 years ago
Eury

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The output shaft being bent really doesn't tell you much, neither does the slow piro. What happens is it throws the blade, and that causes a huge imbalance. If it manages to hang on, the other blade still provides some control (slowing what would otherwise be a blindingly fast piro), but the imbalance bends the shaft. I'd bet anything it chucked the tail blade. I've seen it happen in exactly the same way before. If it had hit the ground and broke the blade off, the damage wouldn't look like it does.Nick Crego

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05-25-2007 04:39 PM  13 years ago
CHARGE

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did the piro rate change when you hit the hold ?A positive outlook is all that is required
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05-25-2007 05:55 PM  13 years ago
yahbut1

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mound mn, usa

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Buyer of pantara
Hey guys, just got my Pantara kit from jeremy at the LHS as mentioned by Walleye. Just had to say that i have speny allot time researching all the different types of kits. A very big factor in going with a Pantara was reading all the posts. seeing the support from the designer is huge. the other factor was finding out the the LHS was stocking spare parts. With local support and this site, this was a no-brainer. So much for fishing this year..
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05-25-2007 10:58 PM  13 years ago
Herc

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Cranbrook, BC - Canada

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So much for fishing this year..
Surely you jest! Welcome to the club.

Cheers, Shayne
Tiger & Pantera 50s
BRC Intrepid Gas
Predator Gas SE
Hirobo SST Eagle 2 98
Evo 50s
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05-25-2007 11:26 PM  13 years ago
ProModeler

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Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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Seems to me he has his priorities straight.
John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745
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05-26-2007 12:59 AM  13 years ago
perfesser zero

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Dublin, VA., USA

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Walleye...
I'm with Eury. After my Tiger crash, I found the tail rotor hub had bent, but the shaft was still straight (go figure). So his assessment of what happened is about what I'm thinking too. I figure mine was the belt just became so loose the the tail let go and yes the piro is "blindingly fast". I'm gluing my booms to the frames now.

Later...

Scott!
Tiger 50 - OS 50SX-H
Hawk Sport - OS 37SZ-H
Raptor 30 - OS 37SZ-H
JR 10X/R950S
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05-26-2007 01:58 AM  13 years ago
The Dude II

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IN - USA

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Walleye,
I had my local ME(Mechanical Engineer) look at your pics...he & I agree that it appears that you most likely lost the blade in-flight.

I'd be curious to see what the existing blade tip looks like...or in
other words....how ground-off is it?

Could be that a T/R strike upon a rough auto or "bounced" landing may have impacted the grip enough to create a weak point...that just "let go" under load???

What Head-speed RPM had you been at prior top the incident?

I must say, I too have been running 95mm vBlades on both a Tiger(updated to the Pantera grips) & a Pantera for a combined total of probably 75 flights. Mostly at 1950 or 2100 RPM and I couldn't count on two hands how many times I've tiled the earth with the tail blades on autorotations.

That said, I've yet to break a grip...though I have bent an output shaft , broken the tail pitch plate and stripped a counter gear...three separate incidents.

Oddly enough, Today marked the first day that I have retired my 95mm vBlades. After 1 belt and two counter gears, I followed JBs offerings and hung a pair of his 90mm VSE...to help in keeping the blades off the grass...and I've ceased killing the engine at 3 foot on my final landings

Good luck with the repairs.
lotta ins, lotta outs
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05-26-2007 05:35 AM  13 years ago
pertti

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deltona,FL

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The tail grips and yellow blades seem very durable, have bent about every shaft there is and still using original tail grips. Maybe it is time to replace them, just in case.
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05-26-2007 03:00 PM  13 years ago
ProModeler

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Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

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I really don't think preventive replacement is necessary. So far, every instance of a broken tail grip can be traced to either over tightening, and/or impact damage like dragging the tail. The instances of broken grips is pretty small. Anyway, if you eyeball the tail grip closely you can easily discern if there is a crack. Examine the picture in the manual because it shows this even more clearly and both explains why it happens and how to prevent it.
John Beech
AMA # 47381
IRCHA #745
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterAudacity Models P6 Pantera - Tiger 50 › Post mortem... thoughts ??
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