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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR 50 › RC Heli mag letter on gear ratio for Titan?
05-24-2007 04:03 PM  13 years ago
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reiserrob2003

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RC Heli mag letter on gear ratio for Titan?
Did anyone read the letter in the back of the new issue of the RC Heli mag that stated to use the 8.7 gear ratio (PV0518) for slower head speeds around 1700-1800RPM or use the stock ratio for headspeeds around 2000RPM. Which would put the OS50 Hyper right in its power band for the given RPM. I've been using the 8.7 gear ratio on my titan with an OS50 hyper and running about 2000RPM in idle up. just wanted to know what other people are using and thoughts about this topic?
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05-24-2007 04:42 PM  13 years ago
Kevin Dalrymple

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Indianapolis

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If you do the math the 8.7 gear ratio will put you out if the power band. 8.7 X 2000 = 17400. With the stock ratio 8.5 X 2000 = 17000 RPM. Acording to OS the Top of the power band is at 17000 RPM. The new gear ratio works good if you load the head a lot. The 8.7 ratio give the rotor more torque to help it get back to the proper head speed. Hope that helps.
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05-24-2007 04:49 PM  13 years ago
BarracudaHockey

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Though I personally run at 1950 with the 8.7 gears. Putting the engine slightly above its power band so if it bogs it's pulling the motor into its highest power is a trick thats used alot. Also I doubt you will see much difference in 17 and 174 with regards to output.Andy
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05-24-2007 05:28 PM  13 years ago
Gary H

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Ok then, what about what Todd Bennett says? He sets his Rap 50 Titan at 1650 with 8.5 to 1 gearing and still gets all the pop u need. Is this all in the hands of the pilot?? The better u r the better the heli works?? Earlyer post in RR. Info Please.

Gary
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05-24-2007 05:31 PM  13 years ago
BJames111

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Though I personally run at 1950 with the 8.7 gears. Putting the engine slightly above its power band so if it bogs it's pulling the motor into its highest power is a trick thats used alot. Also I doubt you will see much difference in 17 and 174 with regards to output.
this is what most people are doing with their raptor. I don't know how Todd Bennet gets away with it, other than he's GOOD, and doesn't need screaming power because he initiates a "pop" with collective and backs off right away. This is common.
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05-24-2007 06:34 PM  13 years ago
Kevin Dalrymple

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I bet TB runs 1650 in normal mode and 1900 to 2100 in idle ups on a R50 with 8.5:1 ratio. If you look at a pros set up they most allways use a low RPM in normal mode so the can here wich mode they are in. I beleve they run a low normal mode so they know not to go inverted or do any thing else that requires power or a full positive and negitive pitch setting.
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05-24-2007 06:43 PM  13 years ago
baddynergy

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TB runs 1650 in IDLE UP. He is SMOOTH. The higher headspeed helps those of us that arent quite as smooth with collective managment make up for our shortcommings.

I run 1750 in idle1 and 1950 in idle 2. You also get longer flight times with the lower headspeed and bearings thoughout the heli last longer.
**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
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05-24-2007 06:57 PM  13 years ago
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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Todd Bennett could make any helicopter out there look good. For the mortals among us I do what works for me.Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
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05-24-2007 07:29 PM  13 years ago
DS 8717

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TB runs 1650 in IDLE UP. He is SMOOTH. The higher headspeed helps those of us that arent quite as smooth with collective managment make up for our shortcommings.
I doubt he runs a 50 that low in idle up.The 50's just dont have the power to lug a helicopter around doing hard 3D,mabey for some easy flying around.
YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED
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05-24-2007 08:07 PM  13 years ago
Kevin Dalrymple

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Indianapolis

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I agree MR10X

1650 X 8.5 = 14025 RPM. That is the begining of the 50s power band if it is not 15000 RPM. If you loaded a 50 size motor at 14025 it might not recover. I bet TB runs 1650 on his 90. That would make sense than.
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05-24-2007 08:10 PM  13 years ago
DS 8717

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The higher headspeed on the 50 also helps with cyclic and collective response,i tried lower headspeed 1850-1900 but it just doesnt have the response i want like it does with 1950 or 2000. it's not just a power band thing with 50's it also flying quality too.DOUGYOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED
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05-24-2007 09:41 PM  13 years ago
kingair

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I doubt he runs a 50 that low in idle up.The 50's just dont have the power to lug a helicopter around doing hard 3D,mabey for some easy flying around.
It's a 50 all right. To get the context here's the thread.

http://www.runryder.com/t263446p1/
As far as the 1650 on the head. When Todd asked me what I ran for head speed I told him 2000. He asked my why so I started to explain that I "needed it" for doing 3D. That is when he started laughing his head off. He asked me if he could show me "Crazy 3D" at 1650 if I would be willing to do the entire school at that head speed. I said if I can use your fingers then I am sure that I could do crazy 3D at 1650 too. He told me if I would try it he would have me doing all the 3D stuff that I currently do at 2000 at 1650 by the end of the school. Me being the "ya right" kind of a guy said sure "prove it." Well let me tell you, prove it he did. He was doing climbing tic toc's, climbing funnels/hurricanes, chaos' and just about every other 3D maneuver that you can think of.

So now I am stuck doing the school at 1650. It took a few flights to get used to it, but I gota tell you. It flies 10X smoother, I am getting almost 15 minutes of run time on a tank of fuel, and the whole heli is no where near as intimidating when you are flying really close. If you say that it is not intimidating you are full of sh!t. Anything that spins a 2" carbon blade at 2000 RPM 5' from your heads SHOULD scare the crap out of you.

Todd was right, by the end of the school I was able to do everything that I was doing before and a whole lot more.....at 1650.

As far as the gyro gain he actually had us all turn it down considerably.....but that is another topic.

I know that everyone here has heard it before time and time again. After going thought the class the biggest thing that he taught me was COLLECTIVE MANAGMENT. I thought that there was no way that a R50 at 1650 would be clean and crisp. And to top it all off we set up with 10.5+/- pitch and 7deg of cyc. That is 17deg of pitch. There is not a 50class motor out there that will pull 17 deg of pitch. So guess what..... The key is in the col management.

At the end of the school Todd did say that it is ok to turn the head speed up to 1800 to 1850 AFTER you can do all the stuff you want to do at 1650. He also said that too many people are running 2000 to get away from having to be clean.....he is right. I was a prime offender.....not any more. I can also tell you that after messing around for about 30 hours at 1650 when I did turn it up to 2000 I didn’t like it at all! 1850 was very nice though with an abundance of power.

All of this I am sure sounds crazy to allot of people but look at the source. Not Blademan7065 but TB. He has proven himself in this industry. His biggest or should I say most convincing way of teaching a point or idea to people is quite simple. He will prove it to you. How can you fault that? Again there is allot left up to personally feel or preference.....but he certainly proved it to me and the three other guys at the field for the 2 days.

Give it a try....you may be surprised at what you find out.
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
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05-25-2007 12:59 AM  13 years ago
Kevin Dalrymple

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OK, OK I will give it a try . Let see if it works. It might be better.
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05-25-2007 01:58 AM  13 years ago
reiserrob2003

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there is one thing he left out though, a faster head speed will undoubtedly provide faster cyclic response. that is a matter of physics
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05-25-2007 02:02 AM  13 years ago
reiserrob2003

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is TB saying I should leave my 8.7 gearing alone and slow down head speed
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05-25-2007 02:22 AM  13 years ago
jadams

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East coast USA

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Not everyone is the same, you need to fly at the HS that is good for you. I use 1650/1850/2000 with the 8.7 gear. I like the slower HS for smooth low stuff, and bump it to 2000 when I am flying around.
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05-25-2007 04:49 AM  13 years ago
MJWS

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You guys keep taking Todd's advice out of context.

The intent is: Fly it at 1650 and GET SMOOTH. Then crank it up.

There isn't a pro out there that doesn't have it cranked. The hyper is happiest well over 17K and dropped into the torque. It used to be 1800-2000. We've seen the power and punch available by cranking it up. Mostly due to the electrics that have pushed way over 2300 and are obscene. Turns out nitro is happy up there too.

We used to think 2500 on a trex was fast too. Now it's 3500. Styles change, equipment is better. Servos are faster and stronger. Motors make more power... we are putting it to use.

Don't kid yourself. Any one of the pro's can turn it way down and make most of us look like chumps. They can make a 30 look like its powerful, or a gutless electric. But when they want to throw down, they take every advantage they can get. That means peak power and all the inertia and energy they can store in the head for use on command. Like all things there is a trade off between speed and recovery. The current stop and pop style really depends on a lot of available inertia and power in the head, so the trend has moved towards higher headspeeds. Not rocket science just the best available compromise for a given style of flight.

Two bits,

Mike
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05-25-2007 05:32 AM  13 years ago
kingair

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The intent is: Fly it at 1650 and GET SMOOTH. Then crank it up.
But when they want to throw down, they take every advantage they can get
Exactly!

If I was just starting out and the only info I had was RR I'd sure think it was absolutely wrong to put the headspeed at anything other than at least 2000. I think the notion of 2000rpm minimum is a myth that gets perpetuated because so many have never tried anything less.

The original post I quoted and linked to is less than a year old by the way.
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
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05-25-2007 03:26 PM  13 years ago
reiserrob2003

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i completely agree with you two, stored inertia is key to that pop. but you'd better have some torque to pull you through when you use it up, but do you think i'd be better off going back to the stock ratio or just stick w/ the 8.7. personally i like the supersonic head speeds but i could probably benefit from slowing it down and working on my collective management, or like someone stated earlier, leave it slightly above the power band so it will get pulled down into the power band under heavy load. Seems like I'm never happy with what I have. I always want faster and more power
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05-25-2007 03:36 PM  13 years ago
DS 8717

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Quote
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As far as the 1650 on the head. When Todd asked me what I ran for head speed I told him 2000. He asked my why so I started to explain that I "needed it" for doing 3D. That is when he started laughing his head off. He asked me if he could show me "Crazy 3D" at 1650 if I would be willing to do the entire school at that head speed. I said if I can use your fingers then I am sure that I could do crazy 3D at 1650 too. He told me if I would try it he would have me doing all the 3D stuff that I currently do at 2000 at 1650 by the end of the school. Me being the "ya right" kind of a guy said sure "prove it." Well let me tell you, prove it he did. He was doing climbing tic toc's, climbing funnels/hurricanes, chaos' and just about every other 3D maneuver that you can think of
Todd was just proving that you can fly with a low headspeed,but you wont be able to fly as good as you could with a higher speed. Guarentee he uses more than 1650 on his helis when looking for the most performance.
YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED
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