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05-25-2007 05:52 PM  13 years ago
AirFoil Aerial Systems

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Not that it matters and thanks guys but we use 5052 aluminum on the camera head. It doesn't stress crack it's roller marks. We use 6061 on the H frames and 7075 on the flat plates. We use all AN hardware and CNC ever part now we can.

Watch the video that's no BS. When you can drop a heli from about 20-25ft and not hurt the mount or heli I think it shows we did our home work on these mounts.

The orginal mounts used a shock to dampen the roll but after we did more testing we saved 3 oz's and we able to use Orings instead.

By the way Dave the mount is shipping today.

Thanks
John
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05-25-2007 05:57 PM  13 years ago
idolminds

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No attitude just observation.

I did a quick check on true aircraft material.

AN Eye bolts Minimum tensile strength 125,000 PSI from Aircraft Spruce $5.75

AN Clevis Minimum tensile strength 65,000 PSI from Aircraft Spruce $15.70

Plenty of safety margin on those parts and close to ½ price of what you purchase your parts for. Put me down to be your vendor for wood and those items also.

Let me clarify I don't know for sure the legs are fiberglass, but they sure look like unidirectional fiberglass legs on my system. I will take one and try to have it tested with a high pot tester. As a side note most high strength carbon rod / tube uses a winding process and my system doesnt have legs made by that process. Is it possible I might have been shipped the wrong legs?

Thanks for owning up on the hydraulic dampening issue.

After waiting almost 6 weeks (when you said you would ship in 2 weeks) I don't want to take the time to pack it up and return it. Thanks for the offer though.

I think my feelings are hurt the way you put down my pictures… I did the best I could. I even said I was sorry about the quality in advance. You are a professional and I'm sure you have professional equipment to take your pictures.
Also if I lead anyone to think I'm "in photography" please accept my apology. I have no claim to be, and have no plans to do so. I just own the equipment.

2 things I don't do very well, dance and take good pictures. Darn those mechanical engineers. I'm much better at analysis stuff, advanced composites as they relate to aircraft devices and crash loading.

Your pictures look great!!
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05-25-2007 06:13 PM  13 years ago
idolminds

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rroback

I understand you're not saying the mount sucks, but I guess I'm say it sucks the way it's described on the website. I don't like to be misled.

I appreciate you taking the time to point out the above issues.

I guess I'm the bad guy for pointing the issues out.

On a side note would you be interested in a pole cam with a carbon Wonder Pole, carbon camera mount with hydraulic dampening?
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05-25-2007 06:22 PM  13 years ago
AirFoil Aerial Systems

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Just to clear things up I sign my posts, I'm not hiding and I would rather give you your money back now then keep you as a customer. Nothing personal you just seem to lack what it took for us to get the mount as light as we did. I know what we use and what it cost but thanks for the quotes. You waited 6 weeks for a Mini Pro 1? I know we are behind on orders but I don't think so.

Let me know who to cut the check to. This is a waste of mine and most everyone shooting pictures time.

Why when I PMed who are you I can't sem to get a name?

John Ohnemus
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05-25-2007 06:22 PM  13 years ago
idolminds

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Acebird.

I completely agree about the heat treatment process to make the bend for 6061 T6. The problem is that they didn't on a 1 T bend. A 0 condition in the corners would help alot but changing the radius or the series of the material might even be better.
Please see crappy attached picture of the cracking on corner bend.
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05-25-2007 07:13 PM  13 years ago
rroback

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A little side note about the legs: there are two types of common composite tubes, either wrapped tubes, or pultruded. Wrapped tubes are spiral wrapped around an inner mandral, and can also have an internal layer of unidirection material as a support, with the outlayer being the wrap. They have a smooth internal section, but the outside has the texture of a spiral. They are usually lighter, more expensive, and better at torsional loading.. The other kind are pultruded tubes, where they basically get all the composite in strands, and pull it while running it through epoxy and letting it cure, so they fibers are pretensioned, and most important, straight. They do both these with both fiberglass, and carbon, but I've only seen fiberglass and carbon pultruded, and carbon wrapped. The fiberglass pultruded rods they usually dye black, to further confuse us. Your products seem to be great John, but I don't like the possibility of customers being taken advantage of ( by false advertising). I can't wait to fly the mount, but I'm likely going to switch the gimbal out for something a little for refined.Rhett..... I can't fly, but the Profi sure can.
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05-25-2007 07:31 PM  13 years ago
idolminds

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John,

Not the answer I was looking for. I'm not looking for my money back. I just want you to be honest in what you advertise. It's nice you stand behind your product but I feel it's better to be upfront with / how you describe your product.

"This is a waste of mine and most everyone shooting pictures time."

Is this good customer service? Again I guess my points are not valid and a waist of time.

The carbon base plate that is now a covered wood part. When changing the material did you think about the difference in loading on the 4 flat head screws that secure it to the 1" strapping? Carbon with countersinks, not so bad, thin wood with countersinks with over tightened screws not so good. It scares me to think the negative margin you have at these mounting points with the wood. A nose heavy camera or one that's improperly setup on the mount balance wise puts significant load on those points. Now point that camera down add vibration and a quick turn from the heli. You might want to keep an eye on this area. Maybe a doubler (light and cheap)?

Why spec such high strength hardware in some areas then leave other areas with extreme negative margins?

Your words John:
"Watch the video that's no BS."

What's everything else?
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05-25-2007 07:43 PM  13 years ago
46Taylorcraft

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AZ

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customers being taken advantage of ( by false advertising).
hmm....... sounds like the magical 25 minute electric heli.

but seriously... My only question would be why use carbon look monokote?? just use black for Christ's sake.

Don't get all uptight John... I think your Pro-1 and Mini are very cool designs.
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05-25-2007 08:23 PM  13 years ago
rerazor

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Mich.

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John,

You don't want to be known as "your way or return the product" type of person/business. You make a good product and some criticism is fine that is how life works. Your not God but you do make a nice product and your website had a few things worded incorrectly.

BUT IT WORKS!!!!
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05-25-2007 09:26 PM  13 years ago
idolminds

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I missed one of John's replies on the corner cracks.

Johns words : "Not that it matters and thanks guys but we use 5052 aluminum on the camera head. It doesn't stress crack it's roller marks."

How are you rolling a 1T corner? A 1T corner is bent. Do you roll it first then bend it? Odd...

Those are cracks. They go across the part not down the length. Am I missing something? Do you roll across the bend for some reason?

I guess I was mistaken on the material as it's noted as 6061T6 on the website.

My point again is that I bought off the website information and was sent something different.
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05-25-2007 09:36 PM  13 years ago
AceBird

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Please see crappy attached picture of the cracking on corner bend.
Well I don’t see any cracking. Possibly there is some tool marks on the inside bend of the one on the left (it is hard to see) but this is not a structural concern. It also supports the claim from John that the material is 5052 not T6. 5052 would be soft and easy to bend and take a set. Actually if a rig fell free fall from 20 ft or better is would surely bend on impact so I would assume there was some autoing involved that cushioned the impact and or the brackets were straightened afterwards in the video.

Here is the bottom line, maybe you or I could design a better mount but we haven’t and we don’t sell anything either. Good engineers inherently lack the ability to sell anything. So the options are, be happy with what you have or send it back to John. If you keep it maybe you can make some improvements and show us what you did. Maybe John will incorporate your ideas into his next version mount. I’ll look forward to seeing your improvemen
Ace
What could be more fun?
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05-25-2007 09:40 PM  13 years ago
AirFoil Aerial Systems

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Hey send it Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No we don't list every type of material on the mount. I just figured most know that the bungees are not aluminum or carbon!!!!

We have the bending done at the same machine shop that welds the H frames and does all the cncing.

You act like we have no engineers or do no testing? I think we will be ok just send it back and buy something else. The product was designed to be light and strong and it is.

There was almost no head speed in the heli when it quit and yes I did flare but when you see us walk out its 2 seconds later. We didn't fix or change anything. What's in the video is it.

Why won't you post who you are?

John
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05-25-2007 11:06 PM  13 years ago
idolminds

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Johns words "Hey send it Back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No we don't list every type of material on the mount. I just figured most know that the bungees are not aluminum or carbon!!!!"

To funny... I guess you also just figured most know that neither the legs or the camera base plate are made from aluminum or carbon!!!!. Just kidding...
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05-25-2007 11:15 PM  13 years ago
idolminds

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It frightens me to think why you need my name but I'm not trying to hide anything.

I just replied to your PM with my name.

Where do you get the ½" square tubing? Very cool stuff.
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05-26-2007 04:01 AM  13 years ago
rroback

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The mount is strong, yes, we get that John, and the mount is a great concept, and the fabrication is quite good. That being said, why does the base plate have carbon monokote on wood? why not wood, why not black? Why can you not simply make an appropriate post without acting defensive?Rhett..... I can't fly, but the Profi sure can.
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05-26-2007 04:21 AM  13 years ago
classic

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That being said, why does the base plate have carbon monokote on wood? why not wood, why not black?
Good grief guys,
Is it REALLY that big of a friggin deal??
He offered you a FULL refund if your not happy, or if you feel decieved, THAT is more than fair on his part, take it or let it go. Your point was made in your first post, are you now just posting to offend? Your beating a dead horse here...

Personally, While I would prefer a carbon plate over a wooden plate, it sure as heck isn't going to make me Not want one! And since it is wood, I would rather have one that was covered by carbon monocote than black, it looks cooler
Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? I don't know and I don't care!
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05-26-2007 04:47 AM  13 years ago
rroback

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I'm more aggrivated by John's lack of response to my questions then I am with the mount, but I am beating a dead horse, and I'm done. If John would have simply said, it looks cooler, that would have been sufficient, but he wouldn't even say that.Rhett..... I can't fly, but the Profi sure can.
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05-26-2007 04:56 AM  13 years ago
lowandslow

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Spring Hill, TN

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I had the same thought when I discovered the base was not carbon fiber. However, the mount works so good I don't really care. It's light, built tuff, the 360 capability is freakin fantastic and it's a perfect match with my 600. If you don't mind John, I'll keep mine...
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05-26-2007 05:59 AM  13 years ago
aambrose

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Pana, IL

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I have an extra CF plate laying around. Anyone want it?
Tony
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05-26-2007 01:23 PM  13 years ago
Smithprod

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Oklahoma

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I'm starting to think this may be one of the dumbest threads I've ever witnessed hear! Idolminds, hear's a crazy thought; go out and actually fly the mount and stop acting like a moron. Your posts are starting to reek of alterior motives...

Brad
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