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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterThunder TigerRAPTOR 90 › R90SE Vibration Problems
05-24-2007 02:35 AM  13 years ago
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lewma

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San Diego, CA

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R90SE Vibration Problems
Guys

I've been battling this problem for a while now and have ran out of ideas.

I had to replace the bearings in my OS91SZH because the originals rusted for some reason. During the rebuild, I also replaced the piston ring. Since I've gotten everything back together, I now have a real bad vibration issue even when the engine is just idling. During idle, I can see the boom supports moving, the horizontal stab is moving at both ends and the GY611 is also having trouble.

Anyone else had this problem ? It can't be anything but the engine/clutch, right ? I've dialed in the cooling fan, it looked fine.

Help!
mark
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05-24-2007 02:48 PM  13 years ago
BJames111

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San Diego, California

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I balanced the fan on mine with an airplane prop balancer. it helped but mine still buzzes a bit.
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05-24-2007 03:03 PM  13 years ago
MrArgus

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uk

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bad vibrations
can be many things
one.. which i've experienced is not having the engine lined up correctly
-- don't go shop for it... Argus it
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05-24-2007 03:32 PM  13 years ago
Dino Spadaccini

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USA

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motor
the os sz motor is known for the vibs try and put another motor in there like a c spec or a new ys sr both of my sz are out of the helis counldnt take the vibs in the heli anymore my cspec is in one and a Ys sr in the other, what happens when your hovering are the fins vibing is the fuel tank getting bubbles in it etc the vibs at an idle are not somthing i get to worked up about but if you are flying and hear a humming sound as you pass though mid stick and it goes away then you have a bad vib from the motor, one other place to look at is the t tube make sure the ends are running true pull the boom off the the heli and the tail off to and spin the t tube and see if it move a little off center like about 1/16 ish that ok but if you see it move more than a 1/4 off center that could be a problem in the tail if you are seeing problems there shakes in the tail fins at all
RIP Roman JR
Capt USA Align Factory Team Align - Conquer Your heart
Team Futaba
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05-24-2007 04:00 PM  13 years ago
Bart B

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chicago illinois

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My tail pushrod was goin' like a banjo string yesterday. BTW it's the SZ motor...
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05-24-2007 05:58 PM  13 years ago
Dino Spadaccini

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USA

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buzz
when is it buzzing in a hover or on the ground like i said i dont put much weight in the buzz on the ground with the motor at and idle if you are hovering and you have a buzz then you need to look at your heli, the first poster stated he changed every thing including the bearings in the motor i would then point to the motor or fan so check the shafts etc then work toward the motor at the end
RIP Roman JR
Capt USA Align Factory Team Align - Conquer Your heart
Team Futaba
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05-24-2007 06:55 PM  13 years ago
lewma

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My rudder servo is twitching so much at idle that I doubt that I could get the bird reliably into the air. I looked a little closer this morning and found that the header for the exhaust is rubbing on the airframe. wonder if that could be transmitting extra vibs.
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05-24-2007 08:03 PM  13 years ago
Dino Spadaccini

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USA

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header
if you are using a sb 18 you have to cut the frame away some you need the space for when adjusting the motor forward or aft make sure the starter cone turns free also pull the motor and see if the fan is running true dial it to see how far its off anymore then 2 thous that no good could be the problem and is the motor new it not look at your bearings
RIP Roman JR
Capt USA Align Factory Team Align - Conquer Your heart
Team Futaba
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05-24-2007 08:56 PM  13 years ago
lewma

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San Diego, CA

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Dino
You're right, I'm using the SB-18 muffler. I'll remove some frame to get the clearance. I already dialed in the fan and it was around 2 thousandths. I've never had vibration like this before, even on my gassers!
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05-24-2007 09:20 PM  13 years ago
Dino Spadaccini

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USA

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more
well let look at what is moving at idle the fan clutch and the start shaft what about the run out on the crank start there you might be sending a vib in the frame set from the muffler header rubbing
RIP Roman JR
Capt USA Align Factory Team Align - Conquer Your heart
Team Futaba
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05-25-2007 05:01 AM  13 years ago
lewma

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San Diego, CA

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Removing part of the frame so that the SB-18 header no longer rubs did help a little, but the vibs are still there. I'm going to pull the engine (again) and check the starting shaft, clutch, fan etc.
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05-25-2007 10:36 AM  13 years ago
MrArgus

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uk

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One more thing
Another thing that happened me when i built a new 90 was that i used a second hand main spur grear from an old crashed 90. (91T does not come with new kits)

This old gear coupled with the new pinion caused noise/vibrations.

The problem was not that the gear was damaged in the crash but that the mesh was never correct and it had worn away a bit from one side of each tooth.

replaced the main spur gear and shoved the pinion up against the main gear and have never had this problem again (btw i used to put a piece of paper between the gears when meshing... not any more!)

my 2c, works for me.
-- don't go shop for it... Argus it
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05-25-2007 12:52 PM  13 years ago
Dino Spadaccini

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USA

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good
wow never thought about the main gear thats a good one thanks MrArgus
RIP Roman JR
Capt USA Align Factory Team Align - Conquer Your heart
Team Futaba
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05-25-2007 03:15 PM  13 years ago
lewma

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San Diego, CA

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main gear
that's good to know however I doubt that's contributing to my problem as the gear is not even moving as the clutch has not engaged.
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05-28-2007 02:17 AM  13 years ago
arceye

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UK

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lewma:

I know this may seem to be very unlikely but have you knocked the tail in any way as it could be a tiny bend in the tail output shaft.
By tiny I realy mean tiny, I had a similar problem with vibes in my 90 where the tail servo was very gittery upon spool up and it was so scary I never lifted the heli off the ground. In the end it was tracked down to the tail output shaft being bent. I must say again the bend was tiny like not even noticable when the shaft was spun in a lathe but it was enough to cause the bolt that holds the tail control rod pivot bolt to snap with hi frequency vibration.
The biggest sign I got was the tail control rod was vibrating badly and the tail servo was gittery during spool up ( the servo was only gittering because the bend in the shaft was causing the push rod to move forward and back very fast so the servo was trying to re-center itself. ( it looked like the gyro was having a fit )

Hope this helps

Andy

Kasama Head :(
The Blingiest DOWNGRADE a Raptor can have
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06-05-2007 06:40 AM  13 years ago
lewma

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San Diego, CA

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Well, the vibration is still there. I was wondering if this could have been introduced while I did the engine rebuild. During the rebuild, I changed out the front and rear bearings with ceramic versions and also replaced the piston ring. Is there any way that I could have re-assembled the engine in a way that would cause it to run rough and cause a higher level of vibration ?

mark.
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06-05-2007 01:18 PM  13 years ago
Dino Spadaccini

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USA

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try this
i went back and read your first post again if you can try this see if some has a R90 at your field with a differant motor other than a OS sz and try that the sz motors have a vib in them no matter what you do , i have gone back to the c spec in one its smooth as glass now and the other has a YS SR which is super smooth too just my thoughts
RIP Roman JR
Capt USA Align Factory Team Align - Conquer Your heart
Team Futaba
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06-05-2007 02:45 PM  13 years ago
Dalieo

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SW FL

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I have the SZ in my 60/90 and was battling an up/down vibe on the verticle tail fin. I changed quite a few things at once and it went away. Wierd thing was it would only viberate when a cyclic input was made.

1. I changed the thrust bearnings in the head.
2. I greased the bearings in the head with the greaser.
3.I changed the t/r drive shaft and went back to just one bearing support - keep in mind its still a short boom, I also greased this bearing.
4. I went to a metal fan, 1 magnet timed with piston TDC. I did try drilling into a vane but missed a hair and went all the way through the fan.
5. I also noted that the holes in the aluminum horizontal fin bracket were drilled at an angle so when tightened it wanted to have a cant leaning about 30 degress left. So I dremmeled some material off the ends of the boom supports so when tightened the cant was gone. I dont like having to twist/pressure something then lock it into place... it should fall in by itself.

My head speeds are 1770 1900 and 2000. Its a pretty smooth heli now.

Hope that helps..

Dale
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06-05-2007 04:42 PM  13 years ago
lewma

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San Diego, CA

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Thanks for the feedback guys.

Mike, in reference to your post. I grinded out a part of the frame so the muffler would fit properly. I can't tell you how many times I've re-aligned this engine. I'm sure that it's aligned fine however you never know.

As of this last weekend, I'm now grounded due to the fact that my GY611 gave up. I'm sure this was caused by the excessive vibrations. I've sent it to Futaba service to see what they can do.

Dalieo, thanks for your comments also. Unfortunately, I've never gotten past a high idle since the engine rebuild so I doubt that touching anything in the head is going to make a difference at this point!

This is very frustrating!! I really want to get this in the air!
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06-05-2007 04:43 PM  13 years ago
FenderBean

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Huntsville Alabama

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mine makes a loud buzz at idle and It seems to go away after i get above idle, but im not sure. I have a YS 90 in mine, I dont think its clutch alignment since at idle it is just free wheeling. I think its just the char of a big engine like that, and natural harmonics maybe?
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