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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterAlignOther › Tail issue
05-24-2007 02:35 AM  13 years ago
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tcast305

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Miami, Florida

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Tail issue
I'm having a problem with my tail on my 600N. It does a weird twich sometimes, and in FF it will start to wag then stop as weel. Its not full constant wag when the gyro is very high. I had my 611 setup as my other 600 (with the original tail), limits were 92% both ways and gain about 36%. I tried turning down the gain but the tail started to get very loose. I then tried putting the ball link in one hole which brought my limits to 120 each way. This helped just a lil but not much.

I'm thinking of taking off the tail from my stock 600E and putting it on the 600n too.

I dont know what to do because I've used the stock tail on my 10s 600 and it holds great with no issues. I've heard nothing but problems with the thrusted tail on the 600E.

Anyone has any idea on what can be done.

Thanks.
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05-24-2007 02:46 AM  13 years ago
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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your limites need to be over 100% both ways

92% is way to low must be over 100

as per jason krause he puts his gain at 30 to 32

where is your sensor mounted?

he also suggest mounting the sensor on top of the servos like this, align is coming out with a gyro plate soon to mount it up front

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05-24-2007 02:52 AM  13 years ago
tcast305

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Miami, Florida

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I moved the link one hole closer on the servo output shaft. Then my limits went up to 120 each way. I kept tring lower gains got to 24 percent still didn't seem right.

I have my sensor in the same place as my other 600's. Its ontop of the tail case were the boom slides into.

Thanks.
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05-24-2007 02:54 AM  13 years ago
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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what radio you using?

make sure all atv's afr's are 100 to 100 on rudder and gyro channels

reset the gyro and try again or even move the sensor up front where it should be, its better so all the fuel doesnt ruin the sponge tape
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05-24-2007 02:59 AM  13 years ago
inkspot1967

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Cranston Ri

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jasons tail servo wheel looks like this

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05-24-2007 03:29 AM  13 years ago
tcast305

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Miami, Florida

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All my ATV are at 100. I'm using a DX7.

I think the problem is with the thrusted tail. There are alot of reports of the thrusted tail having issues on the 600E. The thrusted tail with the 600n kit uses the same "upgraded" tail align released for the 600E. The problem reported with them seems to be quailty control issues with the thrust bearings in the grips.

I'll get on moving the gyro sensor soon. I dont really like the idea of my sensor sitting ontop of my servos.

Thanks.
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05-24-2007 12:14 PM  13 years ago
bobj

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United Kingdom

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Hi

My tail played up a little to start with in the way your have, in the end I have ended up with 27% gain and the hold is just fine, I know others are using a slightly shorter arm to allow higher values.
The biggest difference I noticed was I set mine up in a big hurry and only later found the gyro was still in F3C mode, switching to 3D mode made the tail much more stable.

Cheers
Bob J
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05-24-2007 04:51 PM  13 years ago
JEEPWORLD2002

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BLUEBELL PA USA

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check your belt tightness
on my 30 i had a slight twich here and there i was told that my belt was to tight on my helli directions say the belt should move in 1/4-1/2 dia of the boom mine was tight. so losen it up a little no more nothing.

never mind didnt know was torque tube
Trex600n Trex500 Mikado LoGo5003d// Hacker, CastleCreations,Ys 50, JR 7703d/8900, Radix
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05-24-2007 05:23 PM  13 years ago
inkspot1967

rrProfessor

Cranston Ri

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the t600n is torque tube not belt driven
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05-24-2007 06:17 PM  13 years ago
ckoelliker

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St. Simons, GA

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Do you think it could be the push rod flexing. How many supports are on the 600n. I saw one fly last week at a fun fly. I think the pilot was having a similar problem. I believe he added another rod support.
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05-24-2007 06:38 PM  13 years ago
baddynergy

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sierra madre, ca- usa

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How is your engine running?? I had a similar problem with my rappie and it turned out I was between needles and it had a lean spot. Can you hear the motor twitching when the tail does?? If so go a click richer on the main and a 1/16 of a turn richer on the idle.**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
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05-24-2007 07:27 PM  13 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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tcast305.

I know it's a bit basic but give your boom clamp a good twist to see it it moves I found mine had settled a little after initial assembly and needed a turn or so to tighten fully.
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05-24-2007 07:41 PM  13 years ago
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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Check for some binding. I had a little wag and put some oil on the tail output shaft. It was better after the oil.

I do think it needs another rod support. I'm lazy, so I will wait to see if it is really needed.
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05-25-2007 12:22 AM  13 years ago
tcast305

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Miami, Florida

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I was only able to get barely one flight before it started to pour here today. I changed out the thrusted tail for a new one I had that I never used. I set the gain at 28% and it seems better however, i only got a few mins of flight.

Hopefully tommorow I'll get more time to test.

I have checked the boom to make sure its in place. And I did put triflow on the tail shaft to make sure it was smooth (just like I do on my 600E's).

Also I think I could also be that the engine with gov too causing the issue as I've still on the rich side and the gov could be masking the surging as well. I currently finshed my 7th tank and I'm a click or 2 out of 1 1/2 turns out, so I think I'm on the rich side as the back plate of the motor is just warm (I could keep my finger there forever).

Will see tommorow.

Thanks for all you input.
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05-25-2007 12:51 AM  13 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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If you think it may be vibration related have you pushed the boom fully home? from my previous experience with TT you need to leave about a 1mm end float to allow for expansion contraction of the boom etc otherwise the TT can corkscrew a little inside the boom.

Bob J pointed out to me you need to run a little shorter servo arm than normal as the tail ratio is quite high. I'm running a CSM720 and had to reduce the horn length with it.

This is from JK's website..." Futaba GY611 the servo horn length should be about 13-14mm, limits in the gyro are at 100%
Gain is a little lower on this machine at about 30-32%"
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05-25-2007 01:47 AM  13 years ago
tcast305

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Miami, Florida

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Barney:

On the TT tube, the boom is fully pressed in, but the tail case is just slightly pull out some. My 600e's are the same. I followed the same instructions (TT 600e) so the torque tube wouldn't bind from being over compressed from being pushed all the way in.

The servo arm I used first was the X arm the futaba comes with and used the 3rd hole out from center. My limits were 92% each way. I've since moved it to the 2nd hole out from center and my limits are 120% each way.

Tommorow I'm going to try flying at 30% percent gain as well.

Thanks.
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05-25-2007 01:57 AM  13 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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Best of luck tomorrow..but do give that fin clamp a good twist first though Its usually the stupid things we overlook..

cheers B..
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05-25-2007 09:12 AM  13 years ago
bobj

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United Kingdom

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Hi

Following what Barney said about the fin clamp, try degreasing it and the boom underneath it and bonding to the boom with either slow Zap or epoxy, any movement in the fin clamp will upset the gyro.

Also as I said earlier if you haven't already done it make sure your gyro is in 3D mode.

Cheers
Bob J
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05-26-2007 02:43 AM  13 years ago
tcast305

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Miami, Florida

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I got 8 flights in today. Its still very windy outside 20-30mph outside. However the tail is muchhh better, no weird wag so far.

The tail seem to hunt a lil however that could be cuz I'm still tuning the motor and it was surging a lil and I'm still fine tuning the gov too.

I was able to do tick tocks, FF, FFF, inverted hovers and tail was ok.

What I ended up doing is using the replacement (new) thrusted tail I never used on my 600E (I did check it to make sure it was built right), still have my limits to 120% each way, gain at 31%, and gov set to 3D mode.

Thanks for everyone's input. BTW this heli flys great. It's nice to just put more fuel and go fly!
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05-27-2007 11:13 PM  13 years ago
tcast305

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Miami, Florida

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Just to update, I got another gallon on the machine and tail is still working fine.

Thanks again for your help everyone.
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