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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Manufacturers read this! I'm sick of not getting manuals.
05-24-2007 04:46 AM  13 years ago
balsabasher

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Central Ohio, USA

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Give me a printed manual anyday! Updates? Include additional sheet in new kits and place updates on web site. Saving costs? What's next, building our own servo frames out of wood and building our own canopies? Oh wait, that's been done in the past and we moved away from it. Saving costs? It seems with Microsoft software now not providing a CD, I am not any richer but Bill Gates sure is!
If I want to save money and not receive a manual, I will buy used! Enough said.
Blades; what goes around, comes around!
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05-24-2007 05:18 AM  13 years ago
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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No Printed Manual Is A Ripoff!!!
what exactly is your definition of a ripoff? unless you know how much the kit cost to put together, and what the manufacturer has in overhead and what kind of margin he is pulling in, you have no idea what is being made. for all you know, the manufacturer could be losing money on every kit sold (not bloody likely...but, you don't know). the fact is, to publish 5000 black & white only 20 page letter/A4 sized manuals can cost $10K-$15K. a capitalist economy dictates that this be passed on to the consumer. the fact that you paid XXXX hundred dollars for a kit has no bearing on whether you deserve a paper manual or not---unless you know what kind of profit is being made on the kit and have a legitimate ground on which to base how much margin the manufacturer should make without 'ripping you off'.

i for one have no problem with digital media. in fact, i prefer it because i can print out two copies...one to keep pristine for future use and one to build with and take notes in. sure, it's nice when there's a printed manual in the kit. but, if i could have knocked $5 off the price of the kit, i would have preferred a digital version.
if it ain't broke, break it.
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05-24-2007 05:35 AM  13 years ago
whirlyspud

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USA

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Biggest thing I don't like with a cd manual is I can only mix a couple small batches of epoxy on the cd....A paper Manual is good for dozens of batches.

Mike
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05-24-2007 05:50 AM  13 years ago
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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I liked getting the manual on CD.

It was easy enough for me to navigate, I could zoom in where I needed.

And it saves trees.

I wish more companies would do it that way.
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05-24-2007 06:34 AM  13 years ago
ozace

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melbourne, australia

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printed manual for me please.
I dont have a pc/laptop in the work shed and i hate having to print a hundred or more pages on my dime to assemble a machine. I would rather pay the extra couple of bucks for the company to provide it.
we can never have too many, can we ?
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05-24-2007 12:00 PM  13 years ago
helihobbit

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Dublin, Arizona

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I think the question of updates is important. Why not have the manual in the kit box with the edition version number on the cover. You go to the website and then check for the latest updates/errata. Print off if needed. IMO for most ppl the paper version has to be essential.
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05-24-2007 12:55 PM  13 years ago
lperagallo

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Westfield, Indiana, USA

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One more plus for the electronic version of the manual is searching capabilities. If I'm trying to find a part or specific setting, I can enter a 'find' and see all the places in the manual that matches what I'm looking for. Not that easy to do in a printed manual.

Just because you get the manual on CD or a pdf doesn't mean you can't print the pages you want/need. I print off the important pages I need and bring them to the field. I don't print off all the introductory and safety warnings, or basic build stuff like support materials, tools, landing gear builds. I print important stuff or settings I need at the field. That way it's less to print and haul around.
Twin Bergen 44Magnums FBL Wren NW44s - Kero start
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05-24-2007 01:11 PM  13 years ago
z11355

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New England

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this is NOT an either/or thing.

We're not living in the Guttenberg age.

the mfgr writes the manual in some and I can assure you that .pdf
is an output option from whatever pre-press system they have.

So, put a lousy printed manual in the box, put the .pdf online or
even include a CD also (it costs literally pennies) and put the
errata online.

Problem solved. Next.

also, see http://printfu.com
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05-24-2007 01:21 PM  13 years ago
Eury

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Dover NH USA

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the fact is, to publish 5000 black & white only 20 page letter/A4 sized manuals can cost $10K-$15K. a capitalist economy dictates that this be passed on to the consumer.
I don't care how much it costs them to do a run of manuals. It's a cost of doing business. It'd be cheaper to ship us kits in a garbage bag, would that be acceptable? If it adds $5 onto the cost of a kit, then add $5 onto it. If my 600N had cost me $604.95, I wouldn't have cared, it's not like the extra $5 is going to break me. If they have errors, put in a sheet that says that. If the problem is that the manufacturer is worried about having extras lying around, then they should have developed a better product that would sell. It's a cost of doing business, this isn't a tech business, it's toys. If I buy a computer program, an online manual is fine, I'm already at the computer, when I use it I will be there as well. It is NOT acceptable on a heli kit.
Nick Crego

Citizen #0168
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05-24-2007 02:02 PM  13 years ago
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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I don't care how much it costs them to do a run of manuals. It's a cost of doing business. It'd be cheaper to ship us kits in a garbage bag, would that be acceptable? If it adds $5 onto the cost of a kit, then add $5 onto it.
You have a point. but, the quote you pulled is out of context. It was addressing the fact that someone claimed to be getting ripped off. I was merely pointing out that there's no way to justify "It's a ripoff" when neither the costs nor profit margins are known.

but, back OT. it just goes to show you can't please all the people all the time. the manufacturers are screwed no matter what they do. in this ever 'greening' time of corporate consciousness, the trend is toward less paper, less waste and less pollution. so, the 'greenies' are going to scream when there's unnecessary paper waste, and the codgers are going to scream when it's left out. everyone else is going to adapt and move on.
if it ain't broke, break it.
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05-24-2007 02:03 PM  13 years ago
GyroFreak

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Orlando Florida ...28N 81W

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I like the CD or web page manuals. The reason ? I make a three ring notebook for each model. Some things are common to all models, such as the transmitter, gyro and some other items. I print these for each of the binders so I have all the data with the model I am working on or taking to the field.
As for the printer black cartridge or paper used, that cartridge lasts a long time (many manuals) and the paper cost, less than a penny a sheet, I can afford that.

When was the last time you got a shop manual with your new car or motorcycle free ?
I think about the hereafter. I go somewhere to get something, then wonder what I'm here after ?
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05-24-2007 02:20 PM  13 years ago
red_z06

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Dumont, NJ

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For those who want bound paper manuals, take the CD to a local kinkos or staples. As for the CDs, I copy the pdf to my hard drive and I always access it from there. For this reason, I actually prefer online pdf that I can download over CDs. Online manual has the best chance of being most current over CD or paper manual.

If you choose to, you can alway burn the pdf on a CD or print or have someone like kinkos print it for you.
www.JustinJee.com
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05-24-2007 02:59 PM  13 years ago
Eury

rrProfessor

Dover NH USA

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When was the last time you got a shop manual with your new car or motorcycle free ?
When was the last time you bought a new car or motorcycle and had to assemble it? That's an invalid comparison. The fact is, having a paper manual in the kit inconvenienced no one. If you want a digital version, you can always DL it from the manufacturer. Not having one inconveniences the majority of people.

I shouldn't have to spend the time and money correcting someone's mistakes. Red_z06, if it's so easy and cheap to print a manual and take it to Kinkos to get bound, I'll send you my address, and you can go get one done for me on your dime.
Nick Crego

Citizen #0168
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05-24-2007 03:04 PM  13 years ago
KCT

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Ontario, Canada

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I like to have both printed and softcopy as fully interactive
PDF. Similar to what Augusto presented for his line of helis.
I like the idea of been able to rotate and zoom into a CAD model to view it from different angle.

Just my 2 cent.

Cheers

Kay

That's not flying, that's crashing with style...

TeamBob00, WildCat, Helitron,
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05-24-2007 03:15 PM  13 years ago
ROSSM

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UK

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MANUALS
Go http://www.HeliTown.com

It appears they have the manual avail as pdf. Quite a few by the look of it. Just spotted it.
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05-24-2007 08:57 PM  13 years ago
Cornster

rrApprentice

Medford, MA USA

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Portblock

I would not even care if my heli came in a brown box or even a brown paper bag as long as it was still packaged well AND contained a paper manual. I mean really, how many of use really build and fly those boxes they come in?
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05-24-2007 09:06 PM  13 years ago
Portblock

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Van Nuys, CA

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Cornster,

I agree, I was trying to look at it from a manufacture point of view (money point of view) and I thought, ok, shift money, shift it from the box graphics to the printed manual. Heck, us mail and fexex give your free boxes.
The voices in my head can beat up the voices in your head.
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05-24-2007 10:17 PM  13 years ago
RonHill

rrVeteran

FLL, FL

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I would not even care if my heli came in a brown box or even a brown paper bag as long as it was still packaged well AND contained a paper manual. I mean really, how many of use really build and fly those boxes they come in?
You clearly do not understand marketing. Why do any products come in fancy boxes? Because consumers either want them to be pretty, or need to be attracted to the product. If Align put the heli in a brown box that had in black letters "Helicopter"...Someone would be bitching that the box sucks and that the lame box is an example of the rest of the helicopter. Look at Beer ads, what does a knock out 10 on the hotness scale woman have to do with beer? NOTHING. But it makes people think that that hottie and you could have something in common if you just bought that brand beer. Sounds stupid right? But it works otherwise they would not bother.

Real world modeling example. A buddy had a funfly airplane kit (That used a tailboom BTW)Really nice plane. The kits came with a photocopy picture of the plane glues to the top of the brown box. The kits did not move. When the picture was changed to color and printed on the box, the kits started to move...SAME product, different package, different results.

As for a manual...It comes with a manual, just not in the medium you want. These discussions are a bit like the old snail mail vs Email debates. Funny since we are all online now huh?

I expect more companies to follow the no paper manuals. It will allow those that MUST have a paper manual to print it (hopefully skipping all the crap they don't need to read) and those of us that don't care to....well not care.

It is the future of manuals....In fact I expect that soon the manuals will ONLY be online. I'd be OK with that as well.
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05-24-2007 10:24 PM  13 years ago
porkchop101

rrApprentice

springhill florida

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I didn't receive one with my 60 size corsair from hanger 9 I got right on the phone and told them. I said yes I have a computer but I'm not wasting my ink and paper on something they should have put in the box they sent one out that day. Happy ending for me.What goes up must come down!!!!
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05-24-2007 10:33 PM  13 years ago
arceye

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UK

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Damn!! no paper manual with the trex 600n Hmm send me the pdf file and I will print it out for ya for £10 , or they could add the £10 to the kit price for including the manual in paper format.

Only messing with ya ..

Its often not as convenient if you only get a manual in electronic format but its not the end of the world, at least its better than buying a computer motherboard to build than brand new super computer to find the manual is in electronic format and you have no way of reading it as you have no computer becuase it has no motherboard .

Kasama Head :(
The Blingiest DOWNGRADE a Raptor can have
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Manufacturers read this! I'm sick of not getting manuals.
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