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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-BladeOther › Blade CP & CPP Tail Confusion........
05-22-2007 12:14 PM  13 years ago
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Ed1955

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Pocono Mountains, PA USA

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Blade CP & CPP Tail Confusion........
Could someone please suggest the most reliable and durable tail set up for the CP and CPP? I have read so many pros and cons to direct drive, belt drive systems and even dual tail motor set ups that I really don't know what direction to go in. I fully understand that the factory stock tail motor is pretty much doomed from the start and rather than just wait for it to fail, I would like to replace it with a reliable alternative. Can anyone help me out?
Any and all information on this topic will be greatly appreciated!
Respectfully,
Ed
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05-22-2007 07:19 PM  13 years ago
dignlivn

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Cullowhee,NC.

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Ed

I'm happy with the DD tail.
There is all kinds of post on
it a few pages back.

Bob
dignlivn
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05-22-2007 07:29 PM  13 years ago
bwhokirk

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Buffalo Grove, IL - USA

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I have a CP with dual and an HDX belt drive. Both are much better than just the stock single motor, a world of difference.
As for which one I prefer out of the 2, I would have to go with the HDX belt drive. Although the dual is much better than the stock single, you still have to work at it to keep it from drifting, especially as the battery runs down
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05-22-2007 07:58 PM  13 years ago
astroflyer

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Milford, Nova Scotia, Canada

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No flame intended, but IMHO if you want a reliable and durable tail, the only sensible thing to do is get a heli with a reliable and durable tail.

I personally don't see where the blade tail is doomed from the start. Yes, it's not a proper heli tail, but works just fine. I flew my blade totally stock for two full seasons and replaced the tail motor a couple of times. no big deal. it gives plenty of warning when it's getting old and I've never seen one fail where it caused the heli to crash.

all of the aftermarker "fixes"....dual motors, direct drive motor, belt conversions are just that...fixes. probably end up costing more in the long run than a heli with a proper tail...aka t-rex..compy or whatever.

my advice would be to go and fly your blade stock and enjoy it for what it is, a light durable little heli with a low enough head speed to allow it to be beat around quite a bit and not cost a whole lot to repair and keep flying. great trainer heli...you'll get to a ship with a reliable tail next time. save your bucks for that.
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05-22-2007 08:10 PM  13 years ago
bilbo

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Boston, MA - USA

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Hi astroflyer, while I agree that the heli flies fine with the stock tail motor, at least by some definition of "fine", I don't agree with the part of what you said about an alternative tail necessarily costing more in the long run, or even in the short run. This might be true of a belt tail upgrade, but a DD tail upgrade only costs about $10, or about the same price as a replacement stock tail motor, and it lasts much longer than a stock tail motor. Just buy this package: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...?&I=LXHHM6&P=ML and use the stock tail motor mount.

What's more, as far as the stock tail motor working just fine, I agree to a point, and I was perfectly happy with the stock tail motor while learning to hover and do forward flight. However, try fast backward flight with the stock tail motor; I found even with a G90 gyro, any time I'd try to fly backward faster than a jogging pace, the tail would just blow out. I'm no expert flyer, but I've read enough reviews of the BCPP and similar helis by better fliers to know it's not just me. After upgrading to DD tail motor, I can fly backward pretty much as fast as I dare, and the tail holds MUCH better through stall turns and stall turn pirouettes, and flips, etc.
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05-22-2007 08:24 PM  13 years ago
astroflyer

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Milford, Nova Scotia, Canada

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Hi Bilbo....sounds like you're ready for a heli with a reliable and durable tail...

Loved my blade and had a ton of fun with it, but but once you fly a heli with a proper tail, there's no going back no matter what you do to a blade with aftermarket parts.
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05-22-2007 09:49 PM  13 years ago
bilbo

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Boston, MA - USA

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I'll agree with that. I've now had 3 crashes with my BCPP which I can at least partly blame on the motor tail's lack of authority and reliability. In one case a tail motor failed in flight, and the other two were cases where if I'd been smoother on the collective I wouldn't have crashed, so ultimately they were my fault for not staying within the heli's limits. But I also know from flying my Falcon 3D that a better tail rotor system would have handled my rough flying better and probably have allowed me to avoid a crash.

I completely agree with your larger point about it not making sense to put a lot of money into trying to make a BCPP fly like a larger heli. However I don't think the DD tail mod should be lumped into that category. It's a pretty painless upgrade because it doesn't cost any more than replacing with a stock tail motor, and results in a large performance improvement.
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05-22-2007 09:56 PM  13 years ago
dignlivn

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Cullowhee,NC.

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astroflyer

For some of us the BCP, BCPP
are our first heli. I agree with
what you said about reliable,durable
tail heli. I have a Logo 10 3D NIB, as
soon as my skills warrant it the build
will start. IMHO horizon should have
made the DD tail a Stock item lol.
Even John Adams (horizon employee) uses
one.

Bob
dignlivn
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05-22-2007 10:35 PM  13 years ago
tryan02

rrProfessor

Canton, Missouri

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the stock motor would be fine if the tailrotor wasnt 6" long every time you sit it down a little off on hard ground you tap it and stress the motor. I went through 2 motors learning tail in hover 20 flights hardwood floor in dining room. I only wish after the first one I knew that all I needed was the motor prop in stock housing ten dollar DD tail. Which I have now but I had to purchase seperately and am using a 3030 prop (only 3". although it gets a little warm you can actually feel the authority and holds tail I can only imagine how great it would be with a hh gyro. But If your new Like I am I would suggest no more than DD tail or else your left thumb will never learn to fly (yes I am a thumb flyer).
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05-23-2007 12:54 AM  13 years ago
tutelar-rc

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Nobleton, Ontario - Canada

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I have 2 CPPs - 1 with the stock tail motor, 1 with the BladeCPRepair.com DD tail.

For learning to hover, the stock setup, including stock tail is more than adequate.

As I moved into forward flight, I added HH gyro to both CPPs - which IMHO is making more of a difference than DD tail.

Having said that, when this motor burns out, I will replace it with the DD tail for these reasons:
1. better clearance to the ground
2. better control (when I get to the point of more advanced flying)
3. each motor should last a little longer
4. I think it looks better on the model
5. the sound is more extreme
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05-23-2007 01:06 AM  13 years ago
tryan02

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Canton, Missouri

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tutelar-rc

well put I would just add that if you need a new tail motor i.e. your stock burned up. I would spend another dollar more than E-flite price and go DD tail (motor and pushon props kit no adapters). I dont know if its the 3030 prop or not as its all ive tried so far but the tail holds well enough to fly hands off more than the collective If you added a HH gyro I would assume your tail would be concrete solid. BTW the stock tailrotor with bearings alone is 6 grams. I already tossed my efilte motor I was gonna get the weight diff between DD and stock tail anyone help with that.

in short if your chaging tailmotors go DD and get it over with.
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05-23-2007 01:59 AM  13 years ago
Ed1955

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Pocono Mountains, PA USA

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You guys are all very helpful!
After reading all the replies, there is no doubt that I will be going with a DD set up on my CPP. My CP already has a dual gear driven tail and it works fine for right now. Heck, I'm still a newbie so really I'm not ready for either one of those machines yet. I'm still stress flying my Cx2 and look forward to moving on to one of my more hyper helis. By the way, what a great forum this is! Earlier today, I was afraid I wouldn't get any replies because I was kind of green to the forum. I was wrong! You guys are great! One last question, with the added weight of the belt drive conversion for the CP's, Is there a need for something stronger than a standard brushless main motor?
Respectfully,
Ed
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05-23-2007 03:27 AM  13 years ago
dignlivn

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Cullowhee,NC.

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Ed1955

Say again?

We were talking DD tail, not
belt drive. So I can't help
with the weight of the BD.
A better motor would be a
brushless.

Bob
dignlivn
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05-23-2007 04:42 AM  13 years ago
Ed1955

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Pocono Mountains, PA USA

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Bob......
Bob,
I fully understand that we were talking about DD but I was just wondering about the belted tail system and if the CP Brushhless motor is enough to handle the added weight in a set up like that. I'm definitely going with a direct drive system simply because of the low cost and the positive reviews. One thing that does have me concerned is something I read about having to press the prop on the shaft and the possibility of damaging the motor. I'm not even sure if the one linked above is the type that has to have the blade pressed onto the shaft. I'll have to look into it. I just had the CX2 and the CP Pro out for one battery each. I don't think you could find two more opposite helis then those two. In my den, I only have about 5 square feet in front of my couch and with the CX2, it's no problem hovering and playing around. With the Pro, I often feel lucky to come out of the session with my life! As soon as I get all four training balls off the floor, I practically panic and hope it doesn't come near me. I'm getting better but still have a long way to go. It's all new for me and I love the hobby!
Thanks for all of your help.
Ed
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05-23-2007 05:04 AM  13 years ago
zAmboni

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Michigan, USA

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get the prop adapter for the DD tail. You can bore out the tail prop so you dont have to press it on and then snug it up with the included washer and nut.

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05-23-2007 05:15 AM  13 years ago
Ed1955

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Pocono Mountains, PA USA

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Thanks
Zamboni!
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05-23-2007 05:54 AM  13 years ago
bilbo

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Boston, MA - USA

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How do you bore out your props? I tried it and found it very difficult to drill straight through the middle without a drill press. You'd think the existing hole in the middle of the prop would guide the drill bit, but the plastic is soft enough that I found when using a hand held drill, it let me drill at whatever angle I held the drill bit, so unless I could hold it exactly perpendicular I get a crooked hole.

I do have a vice, so I just use the vice to carefully press on the 3020 props and that works fine. To put the motor in the vice, I bend the capacitor away from the back of the motor, then tape a little collar I have lying around to the back of the motor, so the vice will press against that instead of directly on the plastic back of the motor, and the slowly squeeze the prop onto the shaft with the vice.
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05-23-2007 06:30 AM  13 years ago
zAmboni

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Michigan, USA

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I just installed my BL DD tail a couple of weeks ago....and I'm still on the original 3020 prop I put on it. I dont know what to say about boring out the hole. I just grabbed the smallest drill bit that I had lying around (probably a 0.050") and HAND drilled it....just letting the drill bit follow its way in and bored it out a bit.

The prop was still a bit snug, I remember having to sorta screw it on the adapter a bit, and it has worked out well so far.
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05-23-2007 12:58 PM  13 years ago
astroflyer

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Milford, Nova Scotia, Canada

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Ed, if you sometime decide to go the belt conversion route, the stock brushed motor won't make you very happy.

helidirect has this motor for only 20 bucks which I fly in my compy 300. excellent motor,great power, low amp consumption and runs almost cold.

http://www.helidirect.com/product_i...roducts_id=1609
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05-24-2007 02:41 AM  13 years ago
Coleco

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Anaheim, CA - Orange County

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Thanks for the info, I think I'm going to try the DD tail upgrade with my stock Blade CP.G=C800:5
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