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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › New gallon of fuel, and engine tuning is WAY off!!?? >>UPDATE<<
05-22-2007 04:26 AM  13 years ago
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ZXXflyer

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stone mountain, georgia, US

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New gallon of fuel, and engine tuning is WAY off!!?? >>UPDATE<<
I flew three tanks today with the last of a gallon of Byron 10% nitro 18% oil. Heli was flying great and engine temps were at 226 degrees. Heli is a hawk pro with .32 ABN motor and tuned pipe. Head speed is 1,700.

Opend a new gallon of the EXACT same fuel brand and type, and fired the heli up.... It was SLOBBERING rich at idle.... spewing fuel everywhere.. Wouldn't run without the glow driver.
I had to lean the idle TWO turns to make it run!!!! The main needle was also off! Engine temps went up to 260 degrees on the first flight... screwed with the needles for a full tank and got the temps down to 240, but have NO POWER!!!

What in the world is goin on here!!???????????

I need some help PLEASE

Here is a video showing power before the new gallon was opened:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhpoUFUKwxY
Full throttle bumps look and feel great.

Here is a video showing power on the new gallon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLPbUzwBhVc

the full throttle bumps of the stick look like I dodn't even punch it full!!

Thanks guys!
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05-22-2007 04:27 AM  13 years ago
baddynergy

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sierra madre, ca- usa

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Did you mix the fuel good before using?? contents may settle while sitting.**Unattended children will be givin a shot of espresso and a puppy**
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05-22-2007 04:36 AM  13 years ago
ZXXflyer

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stone mountain, georgia, US

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hmmm...
I don't usually shake my fuel before use, except for the sloshing around in the car on the way to the airport and while carrying the field box. Since this was a new gallon, I suppose it didn't get any sloshing/shaking..
I just dont see how store bought fuel could come un mixed.

I am open to any suggestions!!
I will try anything and everything....
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05-22-2007 01:42 PM  13 years ago
perfesser zero

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Dublin, VA., USA

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ZXXflyer...
Check to make sure that the muffler is tight and the head bolts are also tight. Check the carb and the back plate bolts. If all this is OK, then I'd take the engine out and dismantle it and check for engine damage/bearings. Using the Byron's should be OK, but I can't say that for 100% sure. Someone else had this similar problem with a 50 Hyper and they ended up burning it up.

Later...

Scott!
Tiger 50 - OS 50SX-H
Hawk Sport - OS 37SZ-H
Raptor 30 - OS 37SZ-H
JR 10X/R950S
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05-25-2007 05:16 AM  13 years ago
ZXXflyer

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stone mountain, georgia, US

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120 views and no replies as to what makes my motor suddenly rich??

I guess a motor suddenly going rich never happens
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05-25-2007 07:24 AM  13 years ago
tadawson

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Lewisville, TX

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I would guess a bad can of fuel - try yet another one, and if it's OK, try to return the odd one . . . . it's possible that whatever machine
was mixing up fuel that day ran out of of mismeasured a component . . .

- Tim
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05-25-2007 08:55 AM  13 years ago
wrobijns

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Swalmen, the Netherlands

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I think your plug is dying on you.
This can throw your settings way off.

This conclusion is mostly triggered by the fact that the engine didn't without powerpanel. This would indicate a too cold plug.
But you did not change it, so your plug is glowing badly.
The only way to compensate this is turning it too lean.
Walter Robijns, 3D rules !!!
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05-25-2007 06:21 PM  13 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Check the other things, but a bad gallon of fuel is more common than people think. Many top pilots, esp those in a big event, ALWAYS test run a tank from all the gallons of fuel they plan to use during an event to avoid this problem.

Ben Minor
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05-25-2007 07:59 PM  13 years ago
w8qz

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Grand Rapids, MI - USA

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Could a brand-new gallon of fuel have water in it? Maybe? Sounds like watery fuel to me. Try another source of fuel, and see if things get better."The helicopter is much easier to design than the aeroplane, but is worthless when done. W. Wright"
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05-25-2007 08:01 PM  13 years ago
ZXXflyer

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stone mountain, georgia, US

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Thanks for the help guys!!

I will be replacing the plug in a minute... Can't wait to see if it's the culprit or not!

That's definately a good tip about checking every gallon of fuel when bought! I will start running a tank full from every gallon I buy to compare with the current gallon I'm running. I usually buy two gallons at a time. When I switch to a new gallon, my needles are never more than a hair off, if any!
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05-27-2007 01:19 AM  13 years ago
ZXXflyer

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stone mountain, georgia, US

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Well... It was a dirty glow plug!

Fuel is fine, but I pulled the plug and found a ball of carbon forming on the end of the coil. I carefully scraped it clean as usual and it fired right up. The plug was still shiny and definately not deformed, and had seen peak temps of 268 on a few previous flights.

I noticed a new problem when flying today....
When making fast dascents in FFF, the engine was studdering/missing some. It even made the tail twitch lightly. Could someone please tell me what this most likely is?? I doubt the plug is too hot because when I pull the glow driver, the rpm's fall slightly. The plug is an o.s. #8, and I am only running 10% nitro.

I will post a video tonight of the fast descents so yall can hear the engine and tell me what you think... By the way, It only did it on FFF approaches with shallow descents and a lot of negative pitch. You will have to turn the video up very loud to hear the studdering.

In the meantime, I am open to any suggestions!

HERE IS THE VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxg7KvESYB0

Thanks!
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05-27-2007 06:48 AM  13 years ago
wrobijns

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Swalmen, the Netherlands

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It's hard too hear on the video.
Is it a Burbing" sound?

This would be consistant with the dirt in the plug.
The burbing sound indicates that you're running too rich.
The engine is misfiring during less load.
http://www.jupiter-venlo.nl/Algemee...20EN%20v3.1.pdf

What is your engine?
2 or 3 needles?

If it is a 2 needle carb my guess would be the Idle screw.
Because it happens on decend when the load is low and the carb pretty much closed. You're mostly running on the low needle (mid range on a 3 needle carb).
Check the document and tune it.
Walter Robijns, 3D rules !!!
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05-27-2007 07:15 AM  13 years ago
ZXXflyer

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stone mountain, georgia, US

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yes... you could definately say the motor is burping when fully unloaded at hi speed.

It's a 2 needle carb.

I have the idle screw set so rich, the engine doesn't even want to run when cold/first started... But this is what it takes to keep the hover temps down in the 230 range

Also, if I change the main needle more than 2-3 clicks either direction, it throws the idle needle way off accordingly.

I guess overall, with the engine tuned like I use to before the temp guage, it runs really well, but is smokin hot... I have a phenolic (plastic) backplate on the motor, so I can't do the backplate test. The clinder heads cooling fins are definately too hot to hold a finger on for even a second or two when tuned for the best/smoothest performance.... and i'm a mechanic with some super tuff fingers!!
I don't think however that it's hot enough to fry spit.
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05-27-2007 03:16 PM  13 years ago
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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Chipping carbon off a plug is not the way to solve a plug issue. Replace the plug. If that kind of carbon buildup occurs in just a gallon or two, find another brand of fuel to run. It takes several cases of Cool Power before that build up occurs on my plugs, and by then it's time for a new plug anyway d/t element degradation (Pt doesn't last forever even in a well tuned engine).

Ben Minor
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05-27-2007 10:59 PM  13 years ago
ZXXflyer

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stone mountain, georgia, US

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I think I will drive to the mall and buy two gallons of cool Power "Omega" if the hobby shop finally has it in stock!
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05-28-2007 07:21 AM  13 years ago
wrobijns

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Swalmen, the Netherlands

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If you can't get tuning right without turning it too rich.
If your engine dies when taken of the powerpanel.

You plug is too cold or still dying.
Now I see that it is a 32 engine (in the beginning of the topic).
You should be using a OS#A3 or an Enya#3
(Check the manual)

What are you using now?
Walter Robijns, 3D rules !!!
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05-28-2007 07:32 AM  13 years ago
ZXXflyer

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stone mountain, georgia, US

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hmmmm.. when I tune it so that it operates at the temps I want to see, then it's too rich. When I tune it for good power and smooth running, it's hotter than I'd like to see.

So you are telling me I shoud go with an A3 plug?? to get the power without running hot??

It's too bad I have 4 A5 plugs laying around that I ordered a while back, and not a single A3!!

Anybody wanna trade?

Thanks
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05-28-2007 10:37 AM  13 years ago
wrobijns

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Swalmen, the Netherlands

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An A5 plug is cold and should be used on a 50 size helicopter with 30% Nitro.
Your ignition timing is off because you use a plug which is too cold.
To compensate for this you turn it too lean but then it gets hot.
When you tune it for he right temp it is too rich and it burps.
These are your symptoms, right?

A hotter plug advances your ignition timing and sets it to optimum performance.
Trust me, power will increase on a A3 or Enya#3 plug.
Optimal tuning will then be possible
Walter Robijns, 3D rules !!!
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05-28-2007 11:10 AM  13 years ago
ZXXflyer

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stone mountain, georgia, US

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That's exactly what's goin on!!

Now all I need is to find someone that wants to trade some A3's for all my A5's!!!!
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05-29-2007 09:34 AM  13 years ago
supertigre

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Castle Rock, Colorado

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Tuning
You could also try 15% nitro, or reducing the number of head shims to increase compression. Most heli engines are designed for a bit more nitro, and smaller engines are more sensitive to %. If you have more than one head shim in there, take one out and try it again. If there are different thickness shims available, try some thinner ones.

This is all a balancing act between nitro content, compression and glow plug heat range.
Paul Mcintosh
Owner-CRCustom.com - custom vinyl lettering, banners, signs
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HomeRC & Power✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › New gallon of fuel, and engine tuning is WAY off!!?? >>UPDATE<<
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