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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterAlignOther › So no one has ran into any problems with the new kit yet?
05-21-2007 07:28 PM  13 years ago
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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The build went great, except for:

The tail? What is up with the tail? This is the only place in the build were there are philips screw heads, two of them to be exact. In addition, I felt like; I was attempting to tap a screw hole with a non-self tapping screw? I got it in, but I managed to partially strip one of the heads. A hex head would have been nice. And when I went to screw the ball link into the L-arm that moves the slider, the plastic cracked open, bummer?

The on/off switch? There is no place in the frame for an on/off switch? I found that odd. I mounted mine to the base plate with some epoxy and zip ties.
Old Guys Rule!
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05-21-2007 08:48 PM  13 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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tnbulldog

My local heli store is mail order so I just carefully opened up the hole to match the other side
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05-22-2007 06:10 PM  13 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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Finally got a chance to briefly fly..looking good. Very nimble.

I did hit a problem with the front cyclic servo's rubbing on inside of canopy so removed the excess horn length and they still lightly brushed. (Hi-tec 5925's)

Any way I flew it without Canopy first to get some rough settings, then put canopy on as visibility was not good light..MISTAKE.. It crazed the Gelcoat right where the rubbing is on L/H front servo.

It makes no mention I am aware of as to horn length to use on the CD

I did note on the CD that it showed what looks like a Futaba arm which is the cross 4 arm 4 hole type. They show the balls on 3rd hole out... that measures at 13mm I just checked, I was at 15mm..

Iv'e now changed to 12mm but TBH theres not a lot of room in there

Canopy clib is very secure but a pain to pop on & off

My Plug extension is to short to reach from it's frame mount to plug necessating canopy off to start.

I'm using an Align 6 amp Reg at the moment again it's canopy off to get to the switch..BTW are these a failsafe switch on these? anyone know...I notice there is no switch mount supplied and I was reluctant to fit the Regulator underneath the tray where I could reach it because UK weather can be a trifle damp at times.

one other thing about the Reg is the led battery level, Yes a very nice touch...but I found I cant see the reading due to the side the heatsink is on as I felt the heatsink should be fitted facing outward instead of against the radio tray so it is properly supported. In all fairness it is really for the 600E

Tail guides & rod seemed a little prone to resonance due to only having two guides fitted so will try moving them around a little

A had a fair bit of gyro wagging as it was windy so will be looking into getting that sorted out for tomorrow.

Tomorrow will be the big day He He..
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05-23-2007 12:50 AM  13 years ago
Yug

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UK. Herts

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The only issues I've had with the build have been to dremmel the servo holes - they were too small. I've also noticed the Servo horns lightly rub the canopy. In order to achieve correct geometry in this push pull setup, the ball spacings need to match the Align linkages. This means there is no way to avoid the problem other than perhaps tweek the canopy standoffs.
One other slight issue was the torque tube - this was a little bent such that with the tail, tube and boom assembly you could see the torque tube out by about 1.5mm. A couple of hours gently bending fixed that
One thing that has been great fun is when it came to installing electrics, I realised it would be possible to hide virtually all the wires, so I did
The battery is the only other issue - I'd intended on using a Relion 5200, however it won't fit so I'll either use a 2600 or split the pack and mount in 2 separate locations.
And one other thing..... I came to fit the clunk grommet and nipple; the grommet kept getting pushed into the tank but I eventually won. I'll be using this conventional setup to start with, but am intending to use a crank pressurised system with a fuel magnet and Webra regulator.
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05-23-2007 01:08 AM  13 years ago
tchavei

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Portugal

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YUG!!! Webra Reg? Pressurized System! THAT IS GREAT! I'm about to start working with that too (already have webra reg at home) so we can exchange some experiences

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
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05-23-2007 01:16 AM  13 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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Hi Yug..The servo arm crazed the gell coat on my canopy..

I moved the links in to 12mm, as it is the only set of servo horns I have for these servos.
You are correct as it compromises the geometry as I measured 29.5/30mm between the balls on the levers.

As above in my earlier post the servo horns in pics on CD I reckon are at 13mm..I'm not finding any problem with the 12mm although I don't like it much.

On the TT I backed it out about 1mm to allow for a little expansion/contraction as per my previous TT heli's

Battery, I fitted a relion 2 cell pack as my 2500 flightpower lipo was a little long.

Wiring is all inside the frames nice touch the little holes for the ties. Those frames are sharp though I used a grommet from the elevator servo wire to avoid chaffing.

still got to work out how to get my Revmax sensor in there though..

I'm just after tweeking the 720 parameters as I had tail wag probs..It's standard setting now except Acceleration gain at 140, Headlock gain 45 on a 17mm horn..bit concerned that travel limits are looking a bit in the interface about 80% each way after the quick setup routine..& servo is only moving about 30 degrees each way for max tail slider movement. I took these from duncan O's 600E settings
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05-23-2007 01:40 AM  13 years ago
Yug

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UK. Herts

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I aint flown mine yet. Probably not until next week due to work, business meetings and stuff Gives time to attend to details.
The very 1st thing I did in the build was to sand down the frames because the edges were sharp.
Regards the swash horns, I'm using all discs to minimise flex. I may try to figure out a way of lifting the canopy mounting to aid clearence with the horns. The balls were matched exctly to the align arms which I'd like to maintain. If you want to use a lower ball radies, then you'll have to use a trapezoid arrangement. Suck it and see.
I used the RL20 and the sensor was eventually fitted using the smallest metal mount and drilling a couple of holes in the frames to secure it. It is a tight fit between the tail servo and start shaft bearing block but it looks to be OK.

tchavei - Although I'm going to get the heli ( & engine run in) dialled in with a conventional muffler fuel system, I've figured out a very neat setup for the Webra reg by mounting it on the base plate. This results in the tube between the reg and carb of about 20mm. You'll just need to get a bit of aluminium to make a small bracket which can be tie wrapped to the base plate.

Barney - ummm, errr, I opted for the 611 because I couldn't be bothered to get involved with continual tweeking of the 720. Yup, I still haven't finished my flybarless and have jst received some Zealgel
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05-23-2007 01:47 AM  13 years ago
tchavei

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Portugal

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Yug: Great. I was planning in doing this experiment with my OS 91 SZ-H but since I've given up on 90's, I'm going to try the same with the 50. If you do a search, I've seen it be done with a Hyper 50 and there are pics somewere explaining it. The webra reg already comes with a bracket you mount to the engine supports. Making another bracket isn't a problem though.

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
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05-23-2007 01:50 AM  13 years ago
Yug

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UK. Herts

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I figured the imporatnt bit is to minimise the length of tube connectig the reg to the carb. It just so happens that the reg sits well diagonally on the base plate of the 600N. I'll try and get some pics of what I mean tomorrow. Too drunk njow
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05-23-2007 02:01 AM  13 years ago
Yug

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Zaneman007 - the on off switch - I don't like the pin flag and opted for a conventional onoff switch. For this I made up a carbon mounting plate that fits in the spare servo hole behind the mast.
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05-23-2007 10:36 AM  13 years ago
lightningrc

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UK

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Yug if you used the align regulator with 2 cell lipo , the switch is on the reg.

I was missing one of the bolts in the fan hub clamp , I dont know if the CD manual is the same as the online one but its terrable.
Im finding building it fine as I have the E version also , but for instance clamping the frames / bearing blocks up , I new to go and get a spare main shaft to keep every thing inlign so just did it , then you turn over to the next page and it tells you !! its to late then you have just tightened the screws.

Also like as been said , I new the servo horns had to be 15mm from the centers and every thing must be at 90 etc and to get the links the same length and so on , but there no mention on that in the manual.

Ive not got to fitting canopy on yet , that dont sound very good if its going to rub
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05-23-2007 10:41 AM  13 years ago
bobj

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United Kingdom

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Hi Barney

Just looked at my model after your comments and my cyclic servo arms are at a total distance of 28mm (hole centre to hole centre) speaking to Jason the other night he was adament that 30mm is the best option.
My 600E is slightly wider at about 32mm and this is a little too much and I can feel the lose of resolution between this and the Nitro, must change it soon.
My roll servo's are not touching the canopy as such but you can see slight marks on the inside of the canopy where they are just touching some times in flight when the canopy wobbles but not enough to cuase a problem.
I am using Futaba S9255 servo's but just looked at some Hi-Tec HS 6965HB's and these have about a 3mm higher mounting so the servo arms will be pushed out another 3mm which might explain why yours are rubbing.
If you have space between the two servo's you might be able to mount them with the lugs inside the frames to move them in a little.

Regarding the tail you might find your servo arm is too big, the gearing is quite high on the tail so you only need about a 14mm arm (at least on a Futaba gyro)

My regulator is velcro'ed to the side frame and although the LED's aren't highly visable I can see them enough to check them at the end of the flight.
It's in the same location as the one pictured on Jason's website http://www.jkheli.com/

Cheers
Bob
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05-23-2007 11:31 AM  13 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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Hi Bob thanks for the info...I'm just on my way out this now to give it a run, and see what my LHS has... not a lot I'm certain.. up here as they only dabble in R/C stuff.

I will try to at least get the 720 working as it should today. I've tweeked it as follows Acc gain 140, H/L gain 45 as per Duncan O's 600E settings..It's on a 9254 at present but taking a 8700G with me & laptop..providind the kids left some battery on it!

I've noted your point about the horn length (I suspected it was a little long due to the low travel in the software and I have about 30deg each way for full slider movement.

It's not the best of setups on pitch/cyclics at present but I still get a managable amount.. ..will prob have to do for today..my flying buddy has a set of new futaba's currently off his Synergy at home might just call round on the way though Better nip upstairs for some servo horns now..He He..just in case..it's blowing about 20mph so it will be a good test for the tail.

I need to get it all sorted ASAP as I have stripped My Dyna -X for sale. I have a wee comp 5th/6th June and I absolutely bluttered my Rappy at weekend ..my current back up is my Minii titan..so Dyna might just get built back up!
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05-24-2007 01:14 AM  13 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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Ok as far as the 720 went I ended back at the standard factory default settings with an arm length of 15mm ( right on with the arm length Bob J ..)
I also re-mounted the 720 behind the main mast as it was just a little too snug up front on the top of the front servo's. I used the standard 720 mount tapes except I only had strips so used the offcut to fill between the strips to give a very slightly firmer mounting.

I did briefly try a 1mm tape but was getting vibration drift in Idle 2 at 2150 (still to get the revmax on it)

I found my tail boom clamp had also 'settled' after initial fitment and needed an extra turn or so each side (tight as I dare for risk of stripping the plastic) Worthy of a check though

Flying conditions today were just a tad brutal 25-45mph & gusting. A massive undertaking for any Gyro. I eventially settled at 75% gain (DX7 Tx.) I'm running the piro rate at 100% which would suit most I think. I did try it right up to 150% and the piro rate was astounding... He He..

That canopy clip is bloddy tight, but for sure it's not going to get blown of in fast backwards no matter how hard you try. A slightly bigger lug would help here.

As my previous post the servo balls are at 12mm on the swash servo's (need fresh horns) which is damaging to the linkage symmetry. I found it very jumpy around midstick today and need to look at getting it more linear

None the less I tried two pitch settings..+/-12 & +/- 14 with the cyclics at 100% ATV all modes...I ran 1770 Idle 1 & 2150 Idle 2 without a gov..

This machine has incredable stop/starting ability even on the lower headspeed it really surprised me. I will prob go with 1750 normal, 1850 ish in Idle 1 & 2100 Idle 2. I found it was a little too lively for my liking at 2150 especially in the high winds to-day but not sure how I am going to dampen it down a bit yet...Bob whats you thoughts on this? Flybar weights? reduce the ATV's?

F%$K me sideways the roll rate at 2150 is just a little nippy

It easily out performs my Rap50 with Kasama head at 2100 whether on 8.5/8.27 and demonstrates considerably less binding, This heli is just so damned agile and fly's so very 'light'... and I thought the Kasama was good in this respect..

I'm pretty darned excited about this machine as it has such huge potential..It can be set from the sublime to the ridiculious and beyond.
I can honestly say this is the first heli I have really felt I might have to de-tune for quite some time and apart from a few minor issues looks like being the most innovative, exciting model in the 50 class for 2007
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05-24-2007 01:36 AM  13 years ago
Yug

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UK. Herts

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Yes, the canopy clip is tight to say the least.
What paddles and blades are you using ?
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05-24-2007 06:03 AM  13 years ago
RonHill

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FLL, FL

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I posted this on another forum
The good:
I am pretty impressed with the small things that Align has done to make life a little easier for us. One thing I really liked is how the included hardware was really complete. They included blade holders and 4 good velcro wraps. I can only find 2 screws on the entire heli, the rest are hex nuts INCLUDING the ball links...Like I said, the little things that make a difference.

Another cool thing is how easy the engine is to drop and how easy the muffler is to get at. A lot of kits the idea of dropping the engine is a pain.

The fuel tank makes me think they have been making glow helis for a while. The vent is on the same side as the feed. This makes it really easy to see when the tank is full and prevents you from filling the muffler with 30%. The frames are drilled to route the back pressure line through the heli. The kit even includes a fuel filter.

At almost every point when I thought, "I could really use (Blank)". I looked around and Align supplied it.

Canopy. Wow! nice paint and really light!

I liked the manual on CD. Why kill a tree? If you need a paper manual you can print it. I didn't (of course I didn't build it anyway). I used the manual on CD and the build thread on the-trex600forum. I just needed my laptop and a rag to wipe my hands before I went surfing.

Now the bad:
A couple of things made it clear this was their first glow power heli.
I had to file the bottom plate to allow the Muscle pipe to not rub. Align, what the heck?!?!?! The CYP Muscle pipe is one of the most popular in the market and you showed photos of the test pilots with them...You had to know of this issue. Not that it is a big issue, but it was a surprise considering how well the rest of the kit looked.

Same thing with the Gov....It looks like it is set up for a GV1, but to run almost anything else requires taking a dremel to the fan housing. Again not a big deal but the CYP ATG and the mutigov are both popular Govs....How about thinking of the guys with those?

The antenna guide has you putting the antenna right under the muffler. Not BAD, but messy

Just like the Erex the pitch arm being in the middle of the frames can be a pain.

Power switch. How about including a place to put a regular switch for the RX? I ended up using 2 sided tape to the top of the two servos in the front....Kind ghetto, but it will work.

I think the tail control rod needs more brackets or a carbon tube. There is some play in the rod with only two brackets.

I did not use the glow adapter bracket they supplied. I just took one I had and bolted it on with the engine to the motor mount and then bent it back so the glow driver runs along the frame facing backwards.

Flying:
It was windy as heck today (25-30 MPH). Almost didn't fly, then went out anyway . The heli feels light in the air and was getting bounced around, maybe a little more than my Evo.

I am pulling -13/+13 and this thing jumps when you throw the stick!

The tail felt locked in, a little wag. Maybe due to the gain (Didn't bother to really test it in those winds), maybe due to the high winds, maybe due to some slop in the rod?!?!?

Overall the wind made it hard to see what the heli can really do (we know it can fly in 30MPH winds). My Piro flips resulted in the heli getting pushed away at an incredible rate so it was not a great shakedown environment. Anthony will be coming out tomorrow and I hope the wind will be much less.

Set up:
Radix
CYP ATG Gov
Logitech 6100 Gyro
Futaba 9252 on Cyclic
Futaba 9254 on throttle.
JR 9303

Since then Anthony has flow it, I I flew it about 5 more times. The roll and pitch were less responsive than my EVO. I cranked up the throw and it is about the same now, but much more responsive in collective. Anthony told me he really liked the machine and he wants one. That comment from a guy that has competed in the XFC and 3DM telling me he he likes it and wants one is a pretty strong statement about it IMO.
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05-24-2007 10:41 AM  13 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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Yug I'm using the standard paddles supplied. The roll rate at 2150 is very nippy ..It does roll very axialy. Kinda like a reasonable funfly plank. The paddles coped very well in the wind, certainly better than greenies in a similiar circumstances.

I'm just about to go fit my Revmax pickup so I can set more accurate headspeeds.

As Ron pointed out above there are quite a few nice touches like the tank overflow being visible when fueling, very complete kitting..The velco ties are very nice. Magnets for the fan would have been handy and one more threaded ball link for the Rudder servo.(maybe I was short one)

As I already noted I felt another guide on the tail rod (as did Ron) would prevent the wire from durling at certain RPM's and a reference to there spacing to best avoid this. All very minor things.

The way I see it there is so many + points in this design for advanced flyers over it's predecessors...massive pitch/cyclic range, minimial binding, light weight, strong, non-stacked frames, 3 mainshaft bearings, bearing blocks (I liked the additionial locating lugs), good Auto hub, TT tail drive, Thrusted tail rotor, engine access, CCPM, Tank access and general layout. (Ron)I can live with the elev bellcrank in the middle as it's more evelny supported there. Frames have cutouts for ties already in them. No doubt there are a few things I've missed..nice job JK/Align

I can sort of equate it to jumping into a Ferrari after driving a Morris Marina ..LOL.....most of are to young to even know what one looks like

How about you Yug!
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05-24-2007 11:23 AM  13 years ago
bobj

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United Kingdom

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Hi Barney

You didn't say what main blades you are using, I am using Radix with the stock paddles and although it is ok my 600E with Radix again but Stubz paddles has far quicker cyclic so much more fun.
Both have plenty of stability in FFF so maybe it's your main blades!?
My 600N will be getting either Stubz when the next batch is in or the Align V paddle type paddles.
My swash is about max out as much as possible, interestingly with the stock paddles I din't find the need for any Expo at all, I have some on with the Stubz.
I still haven't fitted a govenor but it's running about 2150 on the head and as much collective as I can get so probably +-14.

I am still using the stock plastic fin clamp, I fitted this with a smear of slow Zap under it and it's holding up fine.
I wanted to fly the kit stock for a while to make sure everything works fine and holds up well!

BTW I am sure you won't want to know this but the past two evenings have been wonderful down here, warm bright and zero wind:-)

Cheers
Bob
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05-24-2007 03:45 PM  13 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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Ha Ha..it's been p£$$%&G down here.. Bob

It's on a set of Radix..I think you picked me up wrong though...

Considering the flying conditions the paddles/blades/headspeed it did rather well...no problem at all...It was definitely much better than my Rappy with Kasama/greenies combo at similiar H/S in that wind..

We had a couple flexi-foils up and the 3m was too big

Roll rate is just wonderfull just a little more sprightly than I expected. Calmer weather and a few flights to climatize will help. I felt I was over controlling a little but thats possibly the light zephir I was flying in.

Bob on the flybar carrier there is an optionial hole (inner/outer)I'm on the outside hole which I presume gives the more agressive cycic..?
I'm a lazy git I know I should really go and see how much cyclic it's running.

I made a brkt up to fit my Revmax today..took ages to get it in there very tight. Well ..blow me...both magnets have gone SOUTH I've never thrown a magnet till now, same glue/mmethod.. Aw well curves it is for today, if the rain stops that is
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05-24-2007 03:51 PM  13 years ago
bobj

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United Kingdom

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Hi Barney

Hope you get some calmer weather to try it in soon, not looking good over the Bank Holiday though:-(

I had mine on the outer hole but JK said to use the inner one, can't say I noticed a great deal of difference, it might be more pronouced with lighter paddles.

Cheers
Bob
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterAlignOther › So no one has ran into any problems with the new kit yet?
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