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HomeAircraftHelicopterAerobatic 3D Contest › What's the difference between Chaos and Pirouetting Flip??
01-20-2003 05:48 AM  15 years agoPost 1
errece

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Estevan, SK - Canada

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I want to know the difference between Chaos and a Pirouetting Flip?? is it the pirouetting rate?? is the PiroFlip stationary and Chaos not?

Thanks

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01-21-2003 02:27 AM  15 years agoPost 2
MR SLOWFLOW

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N.J/N.Y

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the name

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01-21-2003 02:31 AM  15 years agoPost 3
Secret Squirrel

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As I understand it, the CHAOS is a piro flip whose axis of rotation changes throughout the maneuver whereas a piro flip's shouldn't?

Something like that anyway.

Si

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Simon Lockington

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01-21-2003 03:23 AM  15 years agoPost 4
errece

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According to Curtis, in his 3D Lesson video he says that the Chaos is a "pirouetting flip with some other aspects to it like a rotating motion to the flip"

now, what would that mean?

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01-21-2003 04:00 AM  15 years agoPost 5
Harbinger

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alberta

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chaos or piro flip
If you watch curtis video clips on the chaos it looks like a very tight piro loop. What most people are calling a kaos is actually a sustained piro flip

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01-22-2003 01:08 PM  15 years agoPost 6
wilsonj

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Waikerie, South Australia

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Chaos is just a continuous piro. flip. Nothing more. The faster you pirouette the tighter it looks. As you slow it down, it begins to resemble a pirouetting loop.

More the point, what is KAOS?? Can't find it in any dictionary, and I am noticing more and more people refer to it as this.

Regards

Jamie Wilson

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01-22-2003 01:33 PM  15 years agoPost 7
MPA

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Australia

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KAOS vs CONTROL

See "Get Smart"

"Sustained chaos" (as described in some competion rules I read.)
is a piro flip remaing at a given point of axis for a set period of time without moving off the point its performed.

Never done one myself.

The only sustained chaos I ever had was dancing to techno music with a belly full of beer.

rvv.com.au

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01-22-2003 06:04 PM  15 years agoPost 8
Britflyer

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Derby, England

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Chaos Vs Pir FLip
This is my understanding:

Imagine a simple forward flip. Now perform a forward flip pirouetting. This is a Pirouetting Flip. While pirouetting the disc of the heli is just flipping forwards.

Chaos (using statioanary flips to ease explanation)

1)Imagine one complete forward flip
2)Then when upright again perform a tail rotor input (lets say 120 deg left)
3)Perform another Forward Flip
4)When upright tail rotor again (120deg left)
5)Perform another Forward Flip
6)When upright tail rotor again (120deg left)
7) >>>(1)

This is all performed stationary and at constant height

Now perform Steps 1 >> 7 while pirouetting to achieve a Chaos. So the chaos is a 'Variable Heading' pirouetting flip. Also by varying the number/angle of the heading changes will effect the look of a Chaos.

Another explanation is that, Chaos is just a high speed piro flip.

Paul

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01-22-2003 10:46 PM  15 years agoPost 9
MJA

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UK

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Re Kaos


Jamie,
I can tell you what/who KAOS is.If you have Curtis's "Questions and answers book",have a look at page 9

I think it was probably Curtis's own word to describe sustained piro flipping,everybody else just assumed it was spelt chaos


Martin

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02-14-2003 07:36 PM  15 years agoPost 10
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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If it's the same anyway, maybe we should use chaos for something else! How about using it for what happend when applying random stick movements? Then everyone can do chaos, well beginners are even best in it

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02-14-2003 09:27 PM  15 years agoPost 11
Secret Squirrel

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But the Kaos/Chaos ISN'T the same as a piroetting flip. As Britflyer said, the heading/axis of rotation changes with the Kaos, whereas it doesn't for the piro flip.

Si

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Simon Lockington

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02-14-2003 11:04 PM  15 years agoPost 12
Augusto

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US

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There's a big difference
A good controlled sustained piroueting flip will have the rotor disc flipping in the same direction while the tail pirouettes around the main shaft axis.

Not too many people can do a good sustained piroflip. Most people piroflip and kind of "catch it" over and over so the disc is not flipping in the same direction.

Now a chaos is a sustained piroflip where the pilot purposely and in a controlled manner does a maintained piroflip and slowly rotates the flipping axis 360 degrees to a full turn of the flipping axis.

The big deal about this maneuver is that it shows that you have complete control of the sustained piroflip in any orientation of the flipping rotation.

I have never seen anyone do a real chaos and I understand Curtis either saw or performed a good one only once or twice.

If I could think of anyone that could do one I would think Todd Bennett could if he practiced it a bit. His orientation while pirouetting is simply astounding.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate

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02-14-2003 11:07 PM  15 years agoPost 13
Britflyer

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Derby, England

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HHooooorayyy !!!
Someone agrees with me.

Now if you take my explanation of the Chaos and add Collective pumping you get one funky trick.

Unfortunatley I doubt there are many people on this planet that could perform I totally stationary, highspeed, collective pumping Chaos, but it would be fun watching them try

From a reliable source, who has spoken to CY on this subject told me basically what I put in my previous post. The chaos started out as describe above, but then over time, 'Chaos' has just become the term used for high speed piro-flips.

Paul

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02-14-2003 11:11 PM  15 years agoPost 14
Augusto

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US

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The chaos started out as describe above, but then over time, 'Chaos' has just become the term used for high speed piro-flips.
I know and we should try to correct that mistake. Let's try to agree calling things the same way. It's already pretty confusing as it is to make it even more by not knowing what the other person is referring to.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate

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02-15-2003 09:24 PM  15 years agoPost 15
Secret Squirrel

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New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

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Augusto's on the right track here.
Curtis told me when he was here that very few people can do the Chaos and even he has difficulty doing them 'on demand'.

Si

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Simon Lockington

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02-16-2003 07:25 PM  15 years agoPost 16
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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Yes Britflyer, thanks, it's clear after re-reading and yes it sounds logical. I suppose that in reality you don't do the tail rotation after a full flip (and thus stopping the flipping action) but during the flipping.

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02-16-2003 07:29 PM  15 years agoPost 17
w.pasman

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Netherlands

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Britflyer

What is collective pumping?

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02-16-2003 08:48 PM  15 years agoPost 18
Britflyer

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Derby, England

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W. Pasman

Yes, in reality the chaos is a continuos pirouetting man'vre. In my description I have just broken the man'vre down into separate elements to make it easier to understand.

Collective pumping.

Imagaine the Heli has been pulled up into a stall turn. Normally you would goto 0 degs pitch (assuming zero wind condition). But by going to +5 deg then to -5 deg then to +5 deg and so on..........................the model is pulled backwards and forwards using the collective. This is collective pumping.

In the chaos/piro flip scenario. The collective input for the man'vre is represented by a 'Sine' Wave form. Now add some 'noise' (lets say +/- 3 degs) to the sine wave and this is what I meant. You would need some very rapid/accurate collective movements for this to work.

Hope this makes sense

Paul

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02-16-2003 09:02 PM  15 years agoPost 19
O'C

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Millington, TN

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Can someone post a G2 movie of this manuever???

Thanks
Brian

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02-17-2003 08:50 PM  15 years agoPost 20
Augusto

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US

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Can someone post a G2 movie of this manuever???
This is one of those maneuvers that not even the sim helps to achieve.
In most cases the sim will allow you to try a maneuver that you're too scared to try with the real one but that you have the ability to do in the sim. The real chaos is one of those maneuvers where the limiting factor is the ability to perform it so I doubt that we will see too many of those recordings unless the use some tricked-out heli or super slow motion to record it.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate

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HomeAircraftHelicopterAerobatic 3D Contest › What's the difference between Chaos and Pirouetting Flip??
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