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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Governor vs. Rev Limiter???
02-09-2007 12:37 AM  14 years ago
jbc98c

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washington

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ok, that sounds right. they did design a pretty nice product.OH! YOU FLY TOY HELICOPTERS?!
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02-09-2007 12:51 AM  14 years ago
DS 8717

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When your engine goes lean it speeds up,so a governor will lower carb setting not raise it. A limiter will only open the carb to what you have set in the throttle curves. If you lose a magnet the limiter or governor will stop working and your engine will run on your throttle curves.YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED
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02-09-2007 05:14 AM  14 years ago
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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get a multigov. It is both.Old Guys Rule!
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02-09-2007 05:21 AM  14 years ago
jbc98c

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washington

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well, buying a limiter or governor all depends on these few things:
what do the other flyers at your field use?
if noone else uses a governor/limiter, then find one that's easy to use.
then there's always personal preference.

most of the govs and limiters out there have made a name for themselves as being good in some light or another. it's hard to go wrong with any of them.
OH! YOU FLY TOY HELICOPTERS?!
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02-09-2007 09:17 AM  14 years ago
DS 8717

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We use both limiters and governors and also use different brands at our field. I in fact use both types myself. In fact i have one model thats on the governor mode in idle up 1 and limiter mode in idle up 2,so i can tell the difference between both on the same set up.DOUGYOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED
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02-09-2007 12:22 PM  14 years ago
gkoutsis

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Athens Greece

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What noone mentioned, is the hidden menus on the gv-1.
Indeed the GV1 is very slow. it allows overspeed which in some cases is good.

However, edit a couple of settings in the hidden menu, and the gv1 will work exactly the same as the other govs. I am surprised this info is not released by futaba....

Regarding the weight. Do you really thing that 30-40grs more will make a difference on a 50/90 machine?
George
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02-09-2007 12:37 PM  14 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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At no point does a revmax lift your throttle setting above that set in your throttle curve set in the Tx.

MR10X.. Initially I agree the engine speed may rise a little (certainly at idle anyway) but as things start to get really hot the engine will start to loose power and RPM..at this point the Governer just keeps adding throttle regardless masking the problem..

It will run the motor at 100% throttle if necessary to maintain the requested headspeed till you disengage

The problem is much more serious when using the big block motors as they tend to keep running no matter how hot they get, (untill it's to late that is.) The pumped motor are especially prone to this if there is a problem with the pump system as they can go really lean very quickly
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02-09-2007 01:01 PM  14 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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gkoutsis..Yes and No..

When looking for the ultimate performance it is a sum total of ALL the parts of the helicopter. Quick guide to potential savings (90 size model)
40G for the Governer, 60G for a lightweight U/c, 100G for a lipo set up, 30 g a CSM720 against a GY601/611. 20g for lightweight 3D blades 30g for a light canopy, 20g for a mini throttle servo..carbon boom 20g

So your overall potential weight saving could easily as much as 300g

300g equates to roughly 4-5 Servo's..

Some more to think about..

Other benifits of a lightweight U/C is much greater than it initially suggests as the weight is a long way away from the rotationial point of the helicopter (i.e. the blade spindle & NOT the boom as most think). In turn this means less cyclic travel is required to move the model which in turn requires less power from the engine etc etc..

that's partly how you get a model that flies 'Light'
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02-09-2007 01:43 PM  14 years ago
Bart B

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chicago illinois

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However, edit a couple of settings in the hidden menu, and the gv1 will work exactly the same as the other govs. I am surprised this info is not released by futaba...
What hidden menu? Where?
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02-09-2007 03:26 PM  14 years ago
ChristianM

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Oslo, Norway

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Governer

OK you are running a governor and you get a fuel leak/fuel pump failure etc. What happens is the motor will start to heat up and loose RPM. The governor will then keep increasing the throttle to maintain the requested head speed regardless of the temperature the motor reaches i.e. it will add throttle right up to 100% if necessary therefore severely overheating the motor.
I have to disagree with you Barney. When the engine starts to over heat it will start to speed up. Both a governor and a limitor will reduce the throttle in this case thus potentially masking the problem. Eventually the engine will start to slow down but by then it is already cooked and the performance will never be the same so it is a bit academic if you can detect it with a limiter then.

Also most pilots that run a limiter use 100% throttle curve which makes it act like a governor.

Christian
Burn fuel, be happy
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02-10-2007 01:54 AM  14 years ago
uragem

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Indianapolis, IN - USA

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Governor can cook your engine and accelerate a lean situation
Thanks guys for the input. Incidently, I own both the GV1 & the Revmax. Last year I had my engine go lean w/ the GV-1 governor and instead of being able to finesse the helicopter to the ground the governor just kept giving it more throttle until the engine died. It cooked the engine and crashed my heli!!
Indy Jeweler
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02-10-2007 08:51 PM  14 years ago
The Dude II

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What hidden Menu on the GV-1????
Bart B question again...where and what adjustments can be made???
lotta ins, lotta outs
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02-11-2007 12:37 AM  14 years ago
Bart B

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chicago illinois

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Maybe,you need to click your heels together.
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02-11-2007 02:22 AM  14 years ago
The Dude II

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Bart B...you're out of you element!!!
maybe we press the data key until it goes 'click'
lotta ins, lotta outs
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02-11-2007 06:08 AM  14 years ago
The Dude II

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IN - USA

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OK GV-1 owners...here's a nugget of info!
I would suggest caution on the following information...you could alter the "operational specs" such that it may lead to undesired results or injury.

Reminder up front: Warranties and AMA insurance me be voided if you tinker!

The following is a list that I found after running through the search engines.

I confirmed the settings on my two GV-1s. The first GV-1 was purchased over 3 years ago, the other early 07.

All settings were identical between the two except G...and these only varied by a small delta.

To enter, hold both Func + & - whilst powering up.

Pressing Func + cycles through the following:

Ver 1.20
PHis 0.6%
IHis 0.8%
G 19%/50%
IGa 1.7%
GDan 00%
GC1 55%
GCo- 0%
ICo- 50%
LmHV 20%
GLmt 35%
LmSt 50%
TAdL 30%
TAdH 90%
Gov Act
Smpl 1Fr
AVR. 7t
FLT. 4n
Dlay 3us
OnRv 70%
Wait 2Fr
DlUP 3S
DlDN 5S
LDl 100 Fr
RAdj INH
RESET blinking

In my researching this evening, there seem to be a few setting points that can be adjusted to "personalize" the performance of the GV-1.

Let’s review a couple points of the “default” operation.

When the GV-1 is “armed” and reaches 70% (OnRv 70%) of the target RPM the GV-1 becomes “locked”.

At this point the GV-1 then takes a set amount of time to advance the throttle to the desired RPM setting (D1UP 3S…?).

Switching between the RPM set points (Norm, Idle1 & Idle 2 a.k.a. S1, S2 & S3 from the user menu) may also be linked to D1UP.

Observing the 150+ flights of my two helis…the 3S in D1UP might equate to a 3 second delay.

Likewise, the D1DN might be a 5 second delay in transitioning from S3 – S2- S1.

Depending upon your flying style, you may experience overspeeding (revving) when performing/exiting certain maneuvers.
In reading this evening, it appears that when the GV-1 is “locked” it has a minimum throttle setting that it will not go below until “unlocked”.
Lowering GLmt appears to have solved overspeeding for some pilots who have adjusted it down to the range of 20%.

My plan is:

1: Raise OnRv to 80% to 90%…I would prefer to have more control range over the spool-up before the GV-1 becomes locked. (Also #2 may affect the spool-up response) ((Hoping that raising this doesn’t narrow the effective “locked” range that the GV-1 will try to hold before “unlocking”…but that is why you should have your throttle curves setup…just in case!))

2: Lower D1UP to 1S. Currently I run a 9z WCII and run the 8th channel to manually arm & disarm the GV-1…used mainly to turn off the GV-1 when practicing Autorotation and checking throttle curves.
Any of you that have aborted an auto with the GV-1 armed may have had some extra butt-pucker factor as the GV-1 took its time to spool back up. If I forget to disarm (CH8) before flipping the Hold and need to abort the auto…1-second delay versus 3 seconds may be the difference between a “go-around” and a crash!

3: Lower D1DN to 2S. When I change the flight mode from Idle “x” back to Norm for landing I would prefer to have a quicker response to the requested lower RPM

I’ll report back later this week with my results.

Be smart on this...
lotta ins, lotta outs
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02-12-2007 02:15 AM  14 years ago
uragem

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Indianapolis, IN - USA

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Holy Cow! Hey DudeII- you are way over my head. I'll stick to my cheap & simple Revmax! Oh yeah I keep forgetting you are my Indy flying buddy. See you out at the field!!!Indy Jeweler
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02-12-2007 03:42 PM  14 years ago
Bart B

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chicago illinois

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Hey DudeII- you are way over my head.
The Dude abides
Thanks for that bit of research.I have two GV-1's,and I'll be interested to hear your results.
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02-13-2007 12:23 AM  14 years ago
The Dude II

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IN - USA

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Confirmed the following on Sunday during test flights.

GLmt is the minimum percentage the GV-1 will close the throttle while armed & locked. Adjust to address overspeeding in powered descents or exiting maneuvers where you have excessive head speed. Moved to 30% from 35%...settled at 28% for my setup.

D1UP is the transition time the GV-1 uses to increase RPMs between the three set points. Default is 3 seconds...I personally like 1 second. This setting did not appear to affect the transition time the GV-1 goes through upon initial lock and spooling up to the requested RPM for take-off...probably to keep Main Rotor torque from going over the Tail Rotor System ability to hold position. Still need to manage CH 8 for autos if you want immediate throttle curve response upon an aborted Auto.

D1DN is the transition time the GV-1 uses to decrease RPMs between the three set points. Default is 5 seconds...I personally like 2 seconds.

Moved OnRv to 80% from 70%...didn't really "feel" any difference during spool-up and would need a second eye and optical tac to verify operation.

I'll continue to look into the other settings...found a few (threads here on RR and others) that have come up with pretty much the same before I...someone said there's probably only a few that really know.

It's been a long time from my 4 semesters of calculus...(dh/dt of 1/2at^2 = distance...what?) so the other parameters I'm pretty happy with not knowing...but still interested as long as I'm not solving for the integral.

"Johnson?"
lotta ins, lotta outs
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08-02-2007 05:36 AM  13 years ago
Dood

rrProfessor

Wescanson

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100% flat throttle curve (if you can still call it a curve)
seems to be popular with a limiter.

But why is flat 100 better than running a slightly exagerated CURVE?

Also, are you guys switching ON your rev limiter remotely, or is it on all the time?

I'd guess in Normal mode you wouldnt want it turned on at all?
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08-02-2007 01:50 PM  13 years ago
BJames111

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San Diego, California

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There would be no reason to use the limiter in normal mode. Just run a straight 0-25-50-75-100 line in normal mode, and 100% (or exagerated curve) in idle up. Most people do not know how to set up a good throttle curve w/mixes, which is why it's easier for most people to use the 100% throttle all the time. (Tune your engine in normal mode.) The reason why this works better is simple. The radio is constantly telling the rx full throttle, and in this way it "anticipates" the need for increases in throttle when Loads are applied. The Rev Max, then only operates when the desired rpm is exceeded. It responds very quickly, and how it does it is trade secret
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Governor vs. Rev Limiter???
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