RunRyder RC
WATCH
 3 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3     NEXT    >> ] 2444 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterAerial Photography and Video › E Heli for AP... Lots of questions
01-29-2007 03:19 PM  11 years agoPost 21
46Taylorcraft

rrKey Veteran

AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Whats the advantage if any of Lipos over the A 10s1p a123 pack?
weight and/or run time. the A123 pack is heaver in terms of weight per mah. I think they are only 2300mah so a 1p A123 pack is only going to get you about 6-7 minutes of safe flight and the pack is going to weigh a little over 700 grams. two FlightPower 5s4900's will each weigh about 515 grams and you'll fly safely for around 10-12 minutes. So power to weight is clearly the advantage with lipos but cost can be a determining factor.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-29-2007 03:48 PM  11 years agoPost 22
HawkEyeMedia

rrApprentice

Fort Worth, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Another factor is the A123 cell voltage is lower than a lipo cell. Depending on your motor and gear combination, you'll need more A123 cells to make up the same voltage as a lipo.

In my case with the Actro 24-4 and the standard R30 gearing, to get an average 1700 headspeed, I need a 10S lipo pack.

To get an equivalent voltage with A123 cells, I need a 12S pack. So to build one 12S2P A123 pack, I have to buy 3 dewalt battery packs (need 24 cells). $300 and it's going to weigh 1 lb more than an equivalent lipo pack. So I'm willing to spend a little more on the lipos because it saves me weight and space.

If I had a front mount and was only lifting a Canon A640 camera, I could afford the weight penalty.

Mark LaBoyteaux
HawkEyeMedia.com

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-29-2007 03:53 PM  11 years agoPost 23
rerazor

rrElite Veteran

Mich.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

If you select the correct motor (kv) and gearing the A123's are a great choice. Also your can get 95% of the capacity out of them.

Lipos always win when it comes to weight but will always lose when it comes to price and safety/durability etc....

If money wasn't an issue I would be using the FP 5000's.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-29-2007 05:48 PM  11 years agoPost 24
Burnt Offering

rrKey Veteran

Winter Wonder Land, Wasilla Alaska

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Holy Crap!! OK DJ, so what you are saying is, it would take two 5s 4900s to get my ship in the air if I go with lipos. So before shipping, we are talking over 600.00 just in batteries. And thats for one flight. I assume that there is really no way to effectivly charge these things out in the feild, so a guy is obviously going to need several if he has a busy AP day. Man we are talking a couple grand just in batteries. But the feeling I'm getting from talking to you guys is if money were not an issue, you would go with lipos. Unfortunalty, money is always an issue, but I think I will suck it up and go with the lipos. At this juncture I want simplicity, and reliability and the lipos look like they way to go. I might have to sell a couple of my guitars or something to buy some batteries.
OK, I think we have covered the batteries and motors fairly well. I will study up some more on that on my own, so we can move on to something else. Now, a question that I have is concerning Radios. I understand its more about personal preference than anything, but the question I have is more about security. Are you guys using frequency scanners? What specifically do you guys do to protect yourselves from some guy in a backyard 3 blocks from where you are doing a shoot, turning on his radio that just happens to be on the same frequency as you?

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 06:09 AM  11 years agoPost 25
iflybyu77

rrKey Veteran

Fort Wayne, IN

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Radios? Buy a DX-7 or wait for the release of a 9 channel version - or the XPS system. No need for scanning for other users on 2.4ghz. Slick, easy, safe.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 04:33 PM  11 years agoPost 26
Burnt Offering

rrKey Veteran

Winter Wonder Land, Wasilla Alaska

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I hope someday to get a gasser. Right now I don't need to lift 30 pounds. I just need to do snapshots, and I want to be able to slip into a subdivision, take my pics as quietly as possible and get out. I don't want the mess, the smell, or the hassle of a gasser yet. If the day comes I need a good video ship, and it needs to lift a lot of weight, I'll bite the bullet and get one, but til then, I'm going electric. I'm not even really concerned with the cost.
iflybyu77, I'm sold on the Specktrum radio. I did some research and it looks as if this is most definitly the cure all for interference and someone popping up on your frequency. I will have one of these. Does anyone know a release date on the 9 channel?

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 04:43 PM  11 years agoPost 27
46Taylorcraft

rrKey Veteran

AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I want to be able to slip into a subdivision, take my pics as quietly as possible and get out.
I hear ya. When doing real estate you do NOT want to be noticed. Better to get in get in a quick quiet flight and get out.
If the day comes I need a good video ship, and it needs to lift a lot of weight....
there's no reason a video ship NEEDS to lift alot of weight unless you're trying to carry a true production level camera. It took me a while to actually come to realize that for 98% of all video work a 600 class electric can do every bit as good as a $2K gasser (IF PROPERLY SET UP). UNLESS you need flights longer than 10 minutes.... but that's pretty rare.

You've got the right idea.... skip the gassers go mid size electric

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 05:02 PM  11 years agoPost 28
Burnt Offering

rrKey Veteran

Winter Wonder Land, Wasilla Alaska

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

DJ, I'm inclined to agree with you. I realize that gassers have their niche. But I plan on hauling my helis around in my Jeep Grand Cherokee. I have lots of friends that are Realtors that will be riding with me. I don't want the mess period, not to mention the smell. I've been down this road with nitros which granted don't smell AS bad,, and I realize that most gassers have pull starts, but still, I am sick of all the support needed to get one in the air. In fact, I'm sick enough of it that if I have to spend 1500.00 on batteries, thats just exactly what I'll do. DJ I saw the videos you posted from your new electric ship. Frankly, thats what got me off the fence. For me its not about being able to lift 30 pounds. Its about a certain level of excellence I want to portray. If I roll up to a clients, and they want to see my rig, I don't want them to have to don a gas mask to do it. Or, "Let me shake your hand... sorry they smell like gas!" Thats worth whatever the cost of the batteries, at least to me. Let me add to this by saying, I'm past the stage of tweeking constantly. I used to enjoy that, not anymore. I like the idea of putting a battery in my ship, flip the switch and go. Man thats like music to my ears.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 06:36 PM  11 years agoPost 29
aambrose

rrElite Veteran

Pana, IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

This is a really good thread with some good info in it. I too have been interested in large electrics but not because I dislike our gasser. I think both have their place in the AP business. It feels as though the thread is going down the "gasser vs. electric" path now. I'm left scratching my head over all these misconceptions about owning a gasser -- noisy, messy, smelly, hassle, stinky hands, all the support to get one in the air , certain level of excellence to portray.

Client opinions:
From our experience, the client's opinion of your heli is only a fraction of how they view your "excellence". There are so many other factors involved. Most couldn't care less if your heli runs off gas, electrons, nitro, or fairy dust. Your personality, professionalism, and final product go much further with establishing your excellence rating with a client.

Noise:
We've never had anyone complain about our gasser being too loud and we've flown in subdivisions and other areas where some people might think noise would be a problem. Granted, we havent shot any aerials of wedding ceremonies. In fact, the "noise" has been a positive thing for us many times. It attracts attention and people either stop and watch or they come ask questions. The only drawback to this is losing daylight for other jobs while talking to people who are interested in what you're doing. These conversations have landed us other jobs so I have no complaints.

Smell:
As for the smell, granted, we carry the gas can separate from the vehicle we ride in, but the heli rides in the vehicle with us. If you guys knew my wife (camera operator), you'd know that there's no way she would let the heli ride in the vehicle if it smelled. And sure you get a little gas smell on your hands once in a while. You carry wipes with you.

Maintenance:
I definitely don't view maintaining a gasser as a hassle -- it's just normal to wipe it down and check things over in the process. Some might argue that you don't have to wipe down electrics. I find that hard to believe. Regardless, it's not that big of a deal. As for maintenance, anyone shooting AP should be giving a lot of attention to the maintenance of their equipment no matter how it's powered.

Tuning:
As for tuning a gas engine, it's not that big of a deal either -- at least it hasn't been for me. I've touched the needles maybe twice. It's not like I'm constantly tweaking the engine. At least it hasnt been this way for us. I had the engine act up once and a new carb spacer solved that. Couldve been related to a missing tooth on the tail belt too. Troubleshooting a gasser can't be any worse than chasing down RF noise on an electric (which seems to be an all too common subject). Or frying an ESC and/or a motor and not knowing why. Or wondering what the heck happened when a $1000+ lipo isnt performing the way it should be. Sure electrics are smooth but even so, a properly tuned gasser can be smooth too.

Final thoughts:
I agree that plugging in a battery and flipping a switch sounds really easy, but comparing apples to apples, pumping a few ounces of gas into the tank and pulling the rope is a piece of cake too. I'm not "anti electrics" by no means nor am I saying I'm "pro gasser". I just don't believe all the myths about gassers.

Each platform has it's pros and cons. Choose whatever works best for you and/or the job at hand. I can understand a difference in opinion, but to portray gassers as something they aren't always makes me want to speak up because I just dont understand it. Maybe some gassers are all of these inconveniences which leads others to believe all gassers are the same.

Oh yeah, our clients don't have to don gas masks in order to view our gasser. As helicopter pilots, we think our helis are the coolest things, but most clients just want to see the photos. Collectively speaking, our helicopters are definitely a part of our whole package we present to a client, but I doubt anyone will lose business over the smell of gas, um, I mean gasoline.


Tony

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 06:46 PM  11 years agoPost 30
46Taylorcraft

rrKey Veteran

AZ

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

yep.. I don't want to continue down the gasser vs electric thread. Those that have gassers will love 'em and those that have electrics will love 'em.

The only way to truely find out what you will like best is buy both and dump the one that doesn't suite your needs.

DJ out.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 06:49 PM  11 years agoPost 31
aambrose

rrElite Veteran

Pana, IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Yeah, or keep both and use as needed.

Again, I'm not downplaying electrics. I just don't think gassers are as bad as a lot of guys say or think they are.


Tony

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 07:00 PM  11 years agoPost 32
Burnt Offering

rrKey Veteran

Winter Wonder Land, Wasilla Alaska

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hey Tony,
Thanks for jumping in here. I mean that. I don't care if we get a litte friendly "Electric versus Gasser" banter going, I admit I don't know much about gassers, I'm willing to learn. Regardless, what I do know is the sheer volume of guys that have dropped nitro and gassers for electrics and will never go back. I can see that maybe in the future if I hook up with an advertising agency, and they need some aerial video, well maybe then I would get a gasser. But for sure more and more guys are showing that even that can be done with an electric. I guess right now it comes down to, what is currently putting money in my pocket. That is photos for Realtors. I have a Raptor 90 now with an onboard Sony Cybershot. I'm running an OS 91 SZ hyper pumped. I mean the raw power is unreal. And it takes stunning pictures. But other than the power, I hate everything about the nitro platform. Its miserable. Now watch someone jump in here that will say nitro is the only way to go!! Ha! For now, I have my sites set on an electric. Once that is accomplished, I will sit down, evalutate my situation, and consider a gasser. I can definitly see where a guy might need both.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 07:12 PM  11 years agoPost 33
aambrose

rrElite Veteran

Pana, IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Good. I didnt want anyone to get the wrong impression about my post.

I've flown small electrics but not for AP use. I've also flown nitro (AP and non-AP). I admit the nitro was the messiest in regards to oil residue - I hated it. We just dont have that problem with our gasser. Sure you get a little here and there but nothing compared to a nitro. I'd like to have an electric camera ship someday but honestly, it's not justifiable at this time. I'll never rule one out.

Sounds like you have a plan and are thinking things through carefully!

Thanks!


Tony

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 07:24 PM  11 years agoPost 34
Burnt Offering

rrKey Veteran

Winter Wonder Land, Wasilla Alaska

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Feel free to comment any time Tony, I appreciate your insight. You know really guys, I want the ideal situation. And that would be this. To retire my Rappy as a camera ship, and use it for nothing but sheer fun, you know just rally the crap out of it. Then have an electric for stills and a gasser for video. I'll more than likely end up with a gasser sooner or later, just because......well..... cuz I just want one alright!!!!?? Anyway, Tony when I get ready to get a gasser, you will be one of the guys I'll look to for advice.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 07:36 PM  11 years agoPost 35
aambrose

rrElite Veteran

Pana, IL

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ah shucks!

Just don't forget and "rally the crap" out of your AP ship!


Tony

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 10:15 PM  11 years agoPost 36
Burnt Offering

rrKey Veteran

Winter Wonder Land, Wasilla Alaska

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Well one thing is for sure Tony, So far all I have time to think about when I'm flying is trying to keep the heli still. The weather up pretty much sucks all the time. When its -20 F its almost always crystal clear. But no way I'm gonna fly when its that cold. So then when it warms up, like today its overcast 40 F and blowing a sustained 30 mph. So at least so far, the farthest thing from my mind is rallying my AP ship!! Its mostly white knuckle around here.
Anyways, back to the subject at hand. DJ or anyone else, are you guys flying stock birds or are there any special mods I need to consider? I guess specificaly for the ERaptor 620.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-30-2007 10:17 PM  11 years agoPost 37
CoastalTom

rrVeteran

Foley, AL (7 miles N of Gulf Shores/Orange Beach)

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I'll jump in here too.

I've flown both electric and gasser AP ships. I loved my electric but the limited flight times (about 7 mins) always had me thinking about how much time I had left in the air to get back down safely. Many times, AP flights are done in rather confining spots with obstacles to be concerned with as well as trying to get to the right camera angle. I didn't need any more distractions. Granted the electric was a while back and I know folks like DJ have refined the machines and technology to overcome most of the time concerns.

I now fly a gasser with a tank that allows over 20 min flight times so I don't concern myself with air time. As for smell and mess, I use camper fuel and AmSoil synthetic oil. No smell even when carrying a fully fueled machine in my truck cab. As the fuel is naptha, any residue evaporates in a few seconds. On an AP job I arrive with a full fuel tank and can be in the air in a couple of minutes. With a good muffler (I use a Century V3), noise is not as loud as a weedeater.

I too like the smoothness and quietness of an electric. Wish I could afford both. Maybe when business booms!

Just my 2 cents.

Tommy Patterson - Gulf Coast Aerials

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-31-2007 12:35 AM  11 years agoPost 38
HawkEyeMedia

rrApprentice

Fort Worth, Texas

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I did a job yesterday and I took the electric raptor and the big gasser. We shot stills along a 160 acre property for a group of developers. They also wanted video, but it was windy and I knew the terrain would create a lot of updrafts. Sure enough, while doing the stills, the 14 lb Raptor was really getting knocked around.

The property is very wooded and had no vehicle access to the interior, where they wanted the video. So we carried the pieces through the forest and assembled the rig on site. We made a 18 minute flight with the Vario hauling the 12 lb Kenyon stabilized video rig along the tops of the trees. Weather was not good, overcast, windy, and it was nearly 5:00 pm and we were loosing the light. They want to make a presentation by the end of the week, so we had no choice but to shoot it ASAP.

Lots of grey sky and brown trees. Yuck.

They're just tools. Each has it's advantages and dis-advantages. Lately, the gassers have been gathering dust, as I'm doing all my photo jobs with the E-Raptor, but in this case, the heavier gasser handled the wind better for video.

If I could've gotten access to the property, I'dve shot some panos with my mast, and used all three platforms.

Mark LaBoyteaux
HawkEyeMedia.com

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
01-31-2007 12:38 AM  11 years agoPost 39
Burnt Offering

rrKey Veteran

Winter Wonder Land, Wasilla Alaska

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Wow, I'm getting a lot of big guns in here, it's great!! I'm with Bill, can a guy have to many? Got a killer nitro ship, I'll do the electric next, then gee whiz, my arm is getting sore from all the twisting, I'll just about HAVE to get a gasser after that. I will just have to see for myself what all the hubbub is about.

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR  Quote
01-31-2007 07:06 AM  11 years agoPost 40
BigguyOz

rrKey Veteran

Forster, New South Wales, Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

And don't forget the mast, it will be the most useful tool in your quiver.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 3 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3     NEXT    >> ] 2444 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterAerial Photography and Video › E Heli for AP... Lots of questions
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 11  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, September 26 - 1:47 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

The RC discussion world needs to consolidate. RR is now one choice for that. Its software is cutting edge. It hosts on-topic advertising. Help RR increase traffic buy making suggestions, posting in RR's new areas (sites) and by spreading the word.

The RunRyder Difference

• Category system to allow Rep/Vendor postings.
• Classifieds with sold (hidden) category.
• Classifieds with separate view new.
• Answer PMs offsite via email reply.
• Member gallery photos with advanced scripting.
• Gallery photo viewer integrated into postings.
• Highly refined search with advanced back end.
• Hosts its own high end fast response servers.
• Hosts thousands of HD event coverage videos.
• Rewrote entire code base with latest technology.
• No off-topic (annoying) click bait advertising.
Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online