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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Swashplate design
01-27-2007 06:19 PM  12 years ago
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kangarooster

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Orlando Fl-USA

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Swashplate design
Can someone explain the advantages of either a fixed swashplate with washout arms or a sliding swashplate without?
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01-27-2007 06:21 PM  12 years ago
Colin Mill

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England

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can, worms, open
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01-27-2007 06:28 PM  12 years ago
SteveH

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Texas

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The design has nothing to do with the swash plate, but the control system....can opened wider!The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.
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01-27-2007 06:33 PM  12 years ago
kangarooster

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Orlando Fl-USA

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I thought this was a simple question.
I think I am going to learn more than I intended!
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01-27-2007 07:17 PM  12 years ago
GimbalFan (RIP)

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Big Coppitt Key, FL

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can, worms, open
Coffee brewed, topic subscribed.
op-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-thwop-t
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01-27-2007 07:24 PM  12 years ago
S Bell

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Nova Scotia Canada

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A fixed non-sliding swashplate has no washout. A fixed non-sliding swashplate uses a device called a collective scissors to transfer direct cyclic and collective control inputs to the mixers.
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01-27-2007 07:25 PM  12 years ago
SteveH

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Texas

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kangarooster,

What you are talking about, I think, is moving swash collective, and non moving swash collective, which moving swash collective these days is refered to as CCPM (cyclic collective pitch mixing). Virtually all helicopter designs that I know of today are CCPM, whether it be mCCPM (mechanical), or eCCPM (electronic mix). The last helicopter that I had any experience with that was not CCPM was the Kyosh Concepts. They moved the washout base for collective pitch change, and the swash did not move for collective change. Is this what you are talking about?
The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.
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01-27-2007 07:37 PM  12 years ago
kangarooster

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Orlando Fl-USA

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SteveH.
That's what I was talking about.
Now that we are on the same page, is there any reason to choose one over the other?
Ben
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01-27-2007 07:40 PM  12 years ago
SteveH

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Texas

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Now, that is the can of worms and you will get all kinds of thoughts, no make that opinions, of which is better. If you are talking mCCPM vers eCCPM, it's really just a matter of personal choice...they both work good, they both have their "issues", and they both have their strong points.

OK guys, I'm out of here, so let's hear those opinions.
The government cannot give you anything without first taking it from someone else.
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01-27-2007 07:42 PM  12 years ago
S Bell

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Nova Scotia Canada

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Ben, one is an antique and has more slop. That'd be for Kalts, old Schluters, Kyoshos etc.

Stephen
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01-27-2007 07:56 PM  12 years ago
Colin Mill

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England

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I believe that it is possible to engineer extremely good systems out of all three basic designs - collective mechanically mixed above the swash-plate, collective mechanically mixed below the swash-plate (mCCPM with all moving swashplate) and electronically mixed CCPM. All have there difficult points and strong points.

Hows that for fence sitting

Colin
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01-27-2007 08:04 PM  12 years ago
Billebob

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Tim-buck-2

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01-27-2007 09:24 PM  12 years ago
IYKIST

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London united kingdom

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Ben, one is an antique and has more slop. That'd be for Kalts, old Schluters, Kyoshos etc.
I have a TSK super kaiser mechanics with a non rising swash with no slop.
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01-27-2007 09:39 PM  12 years ago
Billebob

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nice antique?
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01-27-2007 10:14 PM  12 years ago
IYKIST

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London united kingdom

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Yes nice antique but better than a lot of "modern" choppers.
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01-27-2007 10:21 PM  12 years ago
chopperman1

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Huntsville, AL

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I never seen any with washout moving, any body have pics of this kind of design?Cliff
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01-28-2007 04:49 AM  12 years ago
gigi

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Port-au-Prince, Haiti

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Picture taken...

Here you go

Zoom 400. The swashplate is fixed, the collective servo is the one below the main shaft. The rod goes all the way to the washout base. It's interesting how it's done, there is a slot cut in the main shaft through which you insert a key of sorts into the washout base, and the key has the threaded hole into which the pushrod goes into. You must unthread the pushrod to remove the key, and then the washout base can come off the main shaft.

It works quite well, no slop, and very positive pitch control.

The old-style system on the Schluter's did have a bit of slop to them. Those had the pushrod ride in a slot cut along the side of the main shaft.

Gigi
My heli spending has gone way down since I got a Honda 919 :-)
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01-28-2007 05:07 AM  12 years ago
brian chan

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Hong Kong

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Thunder Tiger Imperio also ?
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