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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Prototype CSM Flybarless System test.....Update
12-03-2006 01:09 PM  11 years agoPost 1
3D Heli Ireland

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Ireland

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Hi all

Just to put the word out that I have been testing the prototype Flybarless System for CSM on one of my Fury Extremes. You can see the initial results at;

http://www.3dheliireland.com/3DHISkunkWorks.htm

I just got the system up and running yesterday and so the video is still a very initial test, only my third ever flight with the system! I will post further videos as and when I get the system tuned up and running fully to my liking. But I have to say, for an out of the box test, the system performed amazingly well. The machine had a very solid feel while at the same time having an unreal flip and roll rate! No compromise at all the best of both worlds. When you flip with it it just locks into position with no shake or wobble. I think that this is set to be the future.

I will keep you all posted
David
http://www.3dheliireland.com

Skookum Robotics,Sav�x, Motors and Servos,Optipower,SwitchGlo,CML st

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12-03-2006 01:17 PM  11 years agoPost 2
scott sr

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SEAFORD

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Your link doesn't seem to work . It came up like a picture instead of a link .

Scott Sr. ><> ****Support Our Troops**** ><>

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12-03-2006 01:22 PM  11 years agoPost 3
3D Heli Ireland

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Ireland

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Try it now, I was messing with the site at the time.

D

Skookum Robotics,Sav�x, Motors and Servos,Optipower,SwitchGlo,CML st

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12-03-2006 01:37 PM  11 years agoPost 4
Nick Jones

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anderson

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So are you guys planning to make it one system, in like a diffrent case mabe a bit smaller than 3 gyros? And with new software?

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12-03-2006 01:53 PM  11 years agoPost 5
J3DI

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Oswestry, Shropshire. UK

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I like it. A very interesting new chapter is about to start with rotor head control! Also, SS/2.4Ghz around the corner...

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12-03-2006 02:35 PM  11 years agoPost 6
blackie

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N.Ireland

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I sean David flying the new system on sat for the first time and i can tell you it went very well he had just finished setting it up at 2.30 pm and he was doing mild 3d by 3pm

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12-03-2006 02:46 PM  11 years agoPost 7
3D Heli Ireland

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Ireland

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Nick

I know Colin is working hard to make this system as user friendly and compact as possible. The production version should be just that. Incidentally the system only uses two gyros. The gyro on the top is for my tail.

Skookum Robotics,Sav�x, Motors and Servos,Optipower,SwitchGlo,CML st

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12-03-2006 02:57 PM  11 years agoPost 8
jetranger

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PERHAM M.E.

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NEW HEAD
Whats so new about this head looks like a GMP fly barless head from 1985 with a few changes. Also hooked to the swash thats how we did it in 1975 to make Kavan a fly barless head and we used one gyro on both heli's

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12-03-2006 03:32 PM  11 years agoPost 9
3D Heli Ireland

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Ireland

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The head is still the standard Fury head. I want to change a couple of things on it over the next week to help simplify it.

Skookum Robotics,Sav�x, Motors and Servos,Optipower,SwitchGlo,CML st

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12-03-2006 04:37 PM  11 years agoPost 10
Droid

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Deep down in the Southwest- UK

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Hi David

How critical is the mounting of the gyro in the vertical position?
Does this system require fast servos for the gyro?
How do you dampen the roll rate/stability now is it via the gain on the gyro?

Is the finished product going to be all in one or will you require two gyros also.

Why do you wear white wellie boots in a muddy field?

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

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12-03-2006 04:57 PM  11 years agoPost 11
Billebob

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Tim-buck-2

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By installing the links directly on the grips the system can have low resolution, not good especially on a eCCPM machine, unless the standoffs are long enough, hard to tell from the picture BTW. I'd guess from past experience with tinkering the potential collective range is up around +/-20 and the cyclic over +/-10. Might be an idea to use made to order grips with the mixers removed so the links tend to stay on better (90 degree change of pop-off angle)

Besides mixers being mixers they are also a throw reduction device after all, this kind of contraption might need powerful servos with the present leveraged condition?

BB

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12-03-2006 04:58 PM  11 years agoPost 12
falcon

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UK

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Hi couldn't get the link to work it just went to a picture (web page).
I downloaded the vid of the Heli with the fly bar fitted.
Have you got a link to the flybarless vid that works.

www.m0kwr.com

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12-03-2006 05:02 PM  11 years agoPost 13
DOKEY

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Northamptonshire UK

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I have tried posting the direct link but it does not seem to like it, although I have no problems with the link above directing me to the right vid

Ryan.

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12-03-2006 05:15 PM  11 years agoPost 14
3D Heli Ireland

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Ireland

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For those of you having problems with the link, go to my website http://www.3dheliireland.com and click on the picture of the gyros. From there click on the video you want to watch, i.e. Test1

Droid; Firstly the mounting of the vertical (and indeed horizontal and tail) gyro is critical. It must be vertical, just as the elevator gyro must be horizontal.

I am running 9252's at present with no real issue. Hopefully Colin can give the tech answer here.

The roll/flip rate can be controlled via the software. It is user adjustable to suit your needs.

Again to Colin on the question of the production version. I know he is trying to make it as simple (and therefore cheap) as possible.

As for the wellies, well they go back to my previous life before I changed jobs. If you want a pair I am sure I can organise something

Skookum Robotics,Sav�x, Motors and Servos,Optipower,SwitchGlo,CML st

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12-03-2006 05:20 PM  11 years agoPost 15
3D Heli Ireland

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Ireland

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Billebob, all points taken onboard. However the issue of resolution is resolved via the CCPM mixer unit which is completely user adjustable. The radio does not mix the CCPM here, the seperate mixer unit does that. Also the throws are completely adjustable via the mixer as are their gain values. The result is an extremely fast response from an interaction free system which is both accurate and stable.

Skookum Robotics,Sav�x, Motors and Servos,Optipower,SwitchGlo,CML st

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12-03-2006 05:41 PM  11 years agoPost 16
Colin Mill

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England

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Just a note for anyone having trouble accessing Dave's site I found that FireFox had a problem but Internet Explorer was OK - could be the answer to your problems.

As Dave says, my aim is to keep the cost of the system as low as possible. While I would agree that a fully integrated system would be the neatest solution, e flybar is still in its infancy and the current approach of using separate units has many advantages:-

The mixer is low cost and applicable to a flybar equipped ccpm heli so does not constitute a big investment to the pilot wishing to try flybarless. For someone wishing to go flybarless on a non CCPM heli (say Raptor 50) they don't even need to have a mixer! Likewise, although two 720s is not an inconsiderable investment they are applicable to the tail so someone deciding that flybarless is not for them can re-deploy them on the tail of their helis or sell them on to others for that use.

Because the main rotor has considerably greater natural damping than the tail it is not as reliant on servo speed for a satisfactory electronic control system. Indeed, we are finding that the facilities designed into the 720 gyro to allow it to provide accurate control of the tail are (with just changes to the settings) well up to the job of controlling the cyclics.

Best regards

Colin

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12-03-2006 05:53 PM  11 years agoPost 17
falcon

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UK

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Well spotted colin i found the same.
It worked ok with IE.
Very impressed with the flying on the flybar-less head, is this what we will be doing in 2007 dumping the fly bar paddles.

www.m0kwr.com

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12-03-2006 05:56 PM  11 years agoPost 18
3D Heli Ireland

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Ireland

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It's the future....Sorry to all those FireFox guys about the link

Skookum Robotics,Sav�x, Motors and Servos,Optipower,SwitchGlo,CML st

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12-03-2006 05:59 PM  11 years agoPost 19
Billebob

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Tim-buck-2

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So Colin, basically you seem to be considering marketing your gyro as a dual purpose unit with the mixer only needed to have the eCCPM function correctly. Vario had one of these and it never seemed to grab the 3-D sector. A couple of guys tried 360 on the mCCPM cyclic years ago but that got abandoned. It'd be kind of neat to see your system doing very fast stationary and stationary tail rotation tic-tocs close to the ground to size up the potential limits, if any.

I wonder how two 611s would fare on the cyclic, seeing how it is the present day bench mark in T/R gyro technology.Maybe yours has something special in the program that the 611 lacks?

BB

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12-03-2006 06:03 PM  11 years agoPost 20
3D Heli Ireland

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Ireland

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Billebob, I will post more vids as I get a chance to take them. I will make a point of doing harder 3D

Skookum Robotics,Sav�x, Motors and Servos,Optipower,SwitchGlo,CML st

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterFlybarless Rotor Head SystemsOther › Prototype CSM Flybarless System test.....Update
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