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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerOther › Installing the Kasama bell mixers, question
11-25-2006 04:51 PM  11 years agoPost 1
Zman

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Florida

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I already have the Kasama head block and today I going to put on the mixing arms for more collective. I have read here and there to be cautious of binding and was wanting to know is there a fool proof way to check for binding before throwing it in air?

Thanks
Z

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11-25-2006 05:41 PM  11 years agoPost 2
colsy

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Cambridge, UK

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Are you referring to the bell hiller arms, as the mixing arms are almost identical to stock.

The hiller arms at there extreme setting do bind, I.E, the long swash links hit the side of the head block, ( @ full negative, with combined cyclic), but only when the flybar teeters.

Some say that it wont ever happen in flight, as i don't agree with them, i run the intermediate setting which gives a total collective travel of 25 degrees, which is more than enough.

Colin..

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11-25-2006 07:28 PM  11 years agoPost 3
Zman

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Florida

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Yep, those are what I am referring to, Z-rc calls them the mixing lever set but yes we are talking about same thing, dependent on which holes I choose will determine the collective range.

How many degrees of cyclic can I dial in before it causes any problems?

Thanks
Z

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11-25-2006 08:33 PM  11 years agoPost 4
ez2bgman

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N'awlins, LA

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When setting up for max pitch (Outer Hole on the Short side & Inner Hole on the Long Side ), you can get some binding on the bench. With this setup I have +/- 14* of pitch available but I limit it in the pitch curve to +/- 12* of pitch. By doing this, you do not get any binding, but you take full advantage of the bell-hiller arm's adjustability. This setup gives me maximum cyclic rate with +/- 12* of pitch and no binding.

Gary
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11-25-2006 10:22 PM  11 years agoPost 5
colsy

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Cambridge, UK

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Gary,,,
I don't see the advantage in your setup...

any more than 9.5 degrees cyclic, is unusable, this is achievable on the intermediate Bell Hiller arm setup.. using any more to increase collective ratio, and then limiting it in the radio, is doing nothing other than reducing mechanical resolution..

Can you explain the theory to your setup.

Colin..

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11-25-2006 10:29 PM  11 years agoPost 6
ez2bgman

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N'awlins, LA

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Colin,

By setting it up this way, I am able to take full advantage of the faster cyclic rate. This gives me the fastest cyclic rate available with the Kasama head, yet I get no binding by limiting the available collective pitch to +/- 12*.

Gary
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11-27-2006 10:38 AM  11 years agoPost 7
colsy

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Cambridge, UK

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Right, just out of interest where have you set the ball, on the mixing arm's. (lower)

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11-27-2006 12:24 PM  11 years agoPost 8
ez2bgman

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N'awlins, LA

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On the washout arms I have the balls in the outter holes. For the bell/hiller arms, i have the balls mounted on the outter hole on the short side and inner hole on the long side. You can see it here:

Gary
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11-27-2006 12:36 PM  11 years agoPost 9
colsy

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Cambridge, UK

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Right, are you seeing the bottom of the OVALS striking the inside of the opposing washout arms ???

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11-27-2006 01:38 PM  11 years agoPost 10
ez2bgman

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N'awlins, LA

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Unsure...
Can't recall. I'll have to check it out when I get home tonight. I'm pulling a "double" at work at won't get off til 10:30 PM tonight. I'll get back with you as soon as I get a look at my setup again.

Thanks

Gary
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11-27-2006 02:45 PM  11 years agoPost 11
Furyous

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Detroit, Michigan

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That is the same setup I am using, and you can see from this video that there is no problem with binding in the air:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=596355

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11-27-2006 03:08 PM  11 years agoPost 12
ez2bgman

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N'awlins, LA

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Thanks Furious,

I saw that video and man does she rock. Insane power and extremely fast cyclic.

I have been flying with this setup for a couple of months now and I have had no issues. Binding can occur with +/-14* of pitch with the sticks at the extreme corners. But when does that happen while flying. With the pitch limited to +/-12* of pitch, it does not bind.

Gary
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11-27-2006 05:33 PM  11 years agoPost 13
colsy

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Cambridge, UK

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Don't agree with you boy's at-all.
I accept that it may never happen in the AIR, but at the extreme setting there is binding @ max negative collective with any cyclic deflection, as soon as the fly-bar teeters more than about 5 degrees.

So what are the chances of this happening in flight, is the question.

Which is why i'm asking the question.!!!

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11-27-2006 06:05 PM  11 years agoPost 14
Furyous

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Detroit, Michigan

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I don't know where you have your swashplate, but with + and - 15 degrees of pitch, I have my swash set so that the washout block touches the bottom of the head at full positive. At full negative I do not have binding, but I'm using a Xero G shashplate so that may be the difference.

As you can see from the vid, binding does not occur in the air. You must remember how much centrifical force is working against the swashplate deflection.

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11-27-2006 07:25 PM  11 years agoPost 15
J3DI

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Oswestry, Shropshire. UK

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I'm running mine on the extreme setting and on sunday noticed that one of the long links had a slight curve to it - ie it wasn't straight anymore. There has obviously been some binding in the air, although i didn't notice while flying.

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11-27-2006 08:13 PM  11 years agoPost 16
colsy

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Cambridge, UK

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Right, i'm going to be 'real' blunt!!

I am an experienced builder, with a good understanding of rotary wing dynamics, and i am more than capable of setting up a model helicopter to its mechanical limits.

But, at the end of the day this head binds (at it's extreme setting) ,(no doubt).. End of story, it binds.. period.

What i am trying to establish, is what are the chances of this binding, being severe enough to dislodge a ball link during extreme combined collective/cyclic, whilst the fly-bar teeters.

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11-29-2006 12:46 AM  11 years agoPost 17
Droid

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Deep down in the Southwest- UK

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Colsy you are a stick banger!
Right, i'm going to be 'real' blunt!!

I am an experienced builder, with a good understanding of rotary wing dynamics, and i am more than capable of setting up a model helicopter to its mechanical limits.
They say every dog has its day, well remember the time i made you blow a mouthful of wine on your keyboard? Guess what mines all sticky!!!

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

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11-29-2006 04:47 AM  11 years agoPost 18
Vaigod

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Palm Beach, Florida

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What i am trying to establish, is what are the chances of this binding, being severe enough to dislodge a ball link during extreme combined collective/cyclic, whilst the fly-bar teeters.
Chances are REALLY good. Happened to me today. Lost the long link to the swash while doing some fast travelling aileron tic-tocs. I got lucky though, brought her down with a (shoddy) auto and just need to replace a couple of skids. I was running the extreme setup limited to 11.5 collective and 8 cyclic.

I have flown this head about 8-10 times but this was only the second or third time I really beat on her. Looks like I will be moving my balls around on the head. I really like the responsiveness of the head and the quick roll and flip rate, but not at the cost of what happened today.

-=Artti
T-Rex 450SE / T-Rex 600 / JR 9303
Rap50 Titan-OSHyper MP2 GV1 / Rap90SE OS91 MP2 GY611

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11-29-2006 06:37 AM  11 years agoPost 19
TonyTypeS

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New Orleans, LA & El Monte, CA

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If you put a slight bend in the long link where it contacts the main hub, then this will prevent the balls from poping off at the extreme settings. I had to do this in one of my old heli's and it was even mention in the manual to put a slight bend. So I guess that shold be a problem

Another idea is to have the long side of the top mixing arms adjusted so that they are slightly pointed up at mid stick instead of parallel to the washout base mixing arms. As long as both sides have the exact measurments then there shouldn't be a problem right? I only get binding when im at full negative. Having the top arms slightly up will prevent the binding. If you guys have the kasama head you know what im talking about.

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11-29-2006 09:35 AM  11 years agoPost 20
colsy

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Cambridge, UK

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Ahh at last,, some feedback from pilot's that have actually got some stick time at the extreme setting.
I know the bloody thing binds, and enough to make me back-off with it, anyone running a symmetrical setup at some time is going to give combined cyclic at full negative...

AT THE RISK OF POPPING A LONG SWASH LINK. "A FRIENDLY WARNING"
As long as both sides have the exact measurments then there shouldn't be a problem right
Not sure about that Tony, but worth looking into, as is bending the link's.

Yes i am very heavy handed with my heli's, but i fail to see what relevance that has.

Droid you can shut up, were are dealing with metal here, not plastic.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterThunder TigerOther › Installing the Kasama bell mixers, question
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