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HomeOff Topics › An Inconvenient Truth
11-25-2006 05:13 AM  11 years agoPost 41
drdot

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So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw..

Snap judging a Nazi would be bad, then?...
Stereotypes exist for a reason...When I hear of massive Muslim marches protesting Sharia law and Al Quaeda, then I'll reexamine my position..I am a Pragmatist, I err on the side of caution.

John.

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11-25-2006 05:34 AM  11 years agoPost 42
TrexRookie

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San Francisco, CA

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wanting to wipe this place clean of Muslims is a little more than just "caution"....

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11-25-2006 06:58 AM  11 years agoPost 43
quattrokid73

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Huntingdon Valley, PA, USA

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im more concerned about polution in general than global warming...

i care about toxins ending up in water supplies and soil being nutrient enough for healthy crops and things being manufactured cleanly and efficiently, and about recycling and noise, air, and light pollution. these things affect US immediately. if anyone cant see how these thigns affect us, please wipe the sh1t from your eyelids.

we have a right to live and enjoy life, but we also need to respect the world that we share with others.

we share roadways, so do your best to purchase safe vehicles, we share the gas supply, so do your best to not waste it...etc... this is why i think things like h2's, excursions, etc are horrible. such a small amount of people have any use for them but to feel better about themselves and somehow feel 'safer' behind the wheel of a gigantic brick. i have no respect for someone driving down a narrow road in their shiny yellow h2, squeezing me literally off the road as they go by because many of our roads arent designed for such oversized vehicles.

i have no respect for those purchasing these vehicles to feel safe, when all they are doing is driving a larger vehicle with larger stopping distances, more inertia, larger blind spots, lower cornering capacity, and the ability to drive ontop of my lowered a4 if they decide to spill their latte on their freshly pressed armani shirt.

i have no respect for people who drive around in vehicles billowing out black smoke because they dont want to foot the bill to fix their vehicles...last thing i want is to have to be behind them and breathe that in, or release that into the air in populated areas. disrespectful.

-mastadon out!

Aero-Model/Hacker Brushless/Mikado 2007

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11-25-2006 10:04 AM  11 years agoPost 44
Furious Predator

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Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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quattrokid73
my thoughts exactly!!!!
thanks, its nice to see someone out there that has a bit of common sense.
i admit that the "inconvenient truth" movie kinda pushed things to the edge, but he still bring up some valid points and facts. i know he's a moron, all polititions are!! the one thats in the office right now playing with his plastic armymen is no exception.

nobody is asking everyone to load up their roofs with solar panels, and put a gigantic wind turbine in the back yard. nobody NEEDS to go the that extreme. but if you were to buy EFFICIENT appliences ie. low wattage light bulbs for example, or more fuel efficient cars. right now i think all the hybreds look like retarded pieces of crap. maybe someone will make something efficient that doesn't look like it should be driven by people with special needs.

i dont understand the concept of people driving in the city's with SUV's and Hummers. maybe its a competition to see how retarded they are? or see who can get the lowest fuel milage?

if you buy a hummer, or SUV, or some sort of "OFFFFF ROAD!! VEHICLE" and take it OFF ROAD, then fine, otherwise....why? my little ford ranger does great on gas, better then most cars half its size, and with plenty of room in the back to fit all my aircraft when i go to the field or hauling lumber/furniture. i love that thing.

and whats the deal with some of you guys making the argument "well....drrr.....volcanoes make up more polution then we do....drrr....there aren't enough of us to compete with that!!!"
well....uhhh....volcanoes have always been around, i'm sure they pump out a lot! BUT, WE have not always been around, we ALSO pump out a lot!!

as a side note...anyone use Google Earth? ever take a strole through cities and just generaly what its like around the world? take a look through mexico city, or japan/china. the population is so high and dense i cant believe they dont have more problems then they do as it is. but then think about it...your only lookin at a small part or the picture.

Shawn
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11-25-2006 11:07 AM  11 years agoPost 45
TrexRookie

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San Francisco, CA

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quattrokid...

never thought about it that way, but now that you bring it up... I couldn't agree with you more

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11-25-2006 11:24 AM  11 years agoPost 46
Colin Mill

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England

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An interesting point about the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is the amount it has gone up from 1958 to now (315 ppmv then to 380ppmv now). If you do the sums this is an increase of 10.4 billion tonnes a year in total atmospheric CO2. Even now we are 'only' putting 24 billion tonnes/ year into the atmosphere and way back in '58 it must have been way less. Now add to the puzzle that the total exchange of CO2 into and out of the atmosphere (plant growth etc) is about 187 billion tonnes/year. So you have to ask - given the large turnover of CO2 why has most of the CO2 we chucked into the atmosphere over the last 50 years apparently stayed there? It makes you wonder if what we are burning is rather less than half the story - perhaps we are $crewing the sinks of CO2 more than we think.

Colin

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11-25-2006 11:40 AM  11 years agoPost 47
Furious Predator

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Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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hmm...good point....

one thing i heard on the Discovery channel at one point. is that because the CO2 levels are so high right now, trees are actually growing faster! but i guess its still not enough to keep up. i think we are cutting them down faster then they can grow/recover oxygen. its a shame too.

last year i took a vacation camping trip to Algonquin park. the air was so much cleaner i cannot begin to describe it! after 4 days of hiking, canoeing, swimming, fresh air, ect, i reluctantly left feeling more healthy then i ever have in my life!

Shawn
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11-25-2006 11:58 AM  11 years agoPost 48
Colin Mill

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England

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Hi Shawn

Yes, its interesting that the increased vigour of plant grown that you get in lab experiments at increased CO2 concentration doesn't seem to have kicked in. If the rate of loss of CO2 from the atmosphere had gone up in line with the concentration rise then it would have increased by 38 billion tonnes/year but it certainly hasn't done that as its still going up with 24 billion tonnes/year of releases.

I find it very funny that back in the '70s I was a member of a small research group that struggled like mad to get some funds to do research in atmospheric physics and the politicos didn't want to know (pushed us around from one funding body to the next like a bad smell). Now that they see it offers new taxes they can justify they have come over all green (while being driven about in their 5 litre armoured cars). Bless their honest little soles

Colin

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11-25-2006 05:20 PM  11 years agoPost 49
Septic_Shock

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Stillwater, Oklahoma

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So which is it? In the 70's, Newsweek ran an article reviewing the current scientific view that the earth was cooling too fast: Global cooling. http://denisdutton.com/newsweek_coolingworld.pdf

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11-25-2006 06:39 PM  11 years agoPost 50
Colin Mill

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England

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Yes, a valid reason for not thinking that we now have the situation sussed! Remember the low cholesterol foods? Certainly that ended up being vastly more complicated that first appeared and yet we almost all got sucked into that one until the real situation came to the attention of the general public.

Colin

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11-25-2006 08:40 PM  11 years agoPost 51
pigs dont fly

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City, State - Country

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Global warming on mars too

Mars Global Surveyor project:

In the observations made by the project for the past three Mars summers in a row, deposits of frozen carbon dioxide near Mars' south pole have shrunk considerably from the previous year's size, suggesting a climate change is in progress. The main factor causing fluctuations is variability in energy output from the Sun.
It's happening here on earth too, without a doubt. Even though we are a contributing factor, we cant escape it either, the sun has been measured as increasing in its output for the past 100 years.

Personally I dont believe the hype that global temperature rise on this planet is all down to mans own doing.

Warning...This hobby is very addictive and may damage your wealth

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11-25-2006 09:23 PM  11 years agoPost 52
Droid

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Deep down in the Southwest- UK

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No more than the Earth has gone through Heat /Cool cycles all its very very long life. Its all a reason to generate more taxation, Government Solution -"lets save the planet higher taxes on pollutants" (not to stop us using them just to generate more money!!)

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

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11-26-2006 08:12 AM  11 years agoPost 53
Furious Predator

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Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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No more than the Earth has gone through Heat /Cool cycles all its very very long life. Its all a reason to generate more taxation, Government Solution -"lets save the planet higher taxes on pollutants" (not to stop us using them just to generate more money!!)
thats actually slightly wrong....according to the video anyways, and i'm sure they would not use info like that if it were not true or provable. according to what is said in the movie, the temps and CO2 levels are double (serving my memory right) anything the earth has experienced in the thousdands of years that can be back dated with ice-cores.

YES, the earth has gone up and down hill in its life time, but always in a predictable manar it seems, and has a distinct pattern....its not in the pattern anymore.

Shawn
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11-26-2006 09:15 AM  11 years agoPost 54
Rob_T

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I've heard several documentaries state that the CO2 level is double anything previously recorded using ice cores to compare. I would tend to take this as fact unless a number of different sources have all decided to spread the same lie (possible but unlikely).

I think it's fair to say that the CO2 level represents an experiment on a global scale. We do not know the outcome based on having data for this scenario from historical records. However in previous times there has been a very close correlation between global temperature and CO2 level, which should be cause for concern if the correlation continues.

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11-26-2006 09:16 AM  11 years agoPost 55
Colin Mill

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England

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CO2 levels are double (serving my memory right) anything the earth has experienced in the thousdands of years
Yes, but if you look at one of the graphs on this page:-

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=010405M

You see that about 450 million years ago the earth was in a severe ice age with CO2 levels 15 times greater than those today.

I have a few worries about the Mann "hockey stick curve" on which much reliance is currently placed re global warming. It shows no sign of the medieval warm period (during which the Vikings farmed northern lands that are simply impossible cold to farm today) and the small ice age during which the Thames through London froze over. Mann supporters explain this by saying that these were 'local' European climatic events. They also say much the same regarding Japanese documentary evidence of similarly timed warm and cold periods. Synchronised 'local' European and Japanese climatic events needs some explanation!

I am reminded of the situation regarding continental drift up until the mid 1960 in which the physicists argued against continental drift despite evidence from the earth sciences in support of the drift theory. However Vine and Matthews published their magnetic striping paper in 1966 (which pretty much nailed the argument in favour of continental drift) and suddenly the physicists could magically understand the processes at work

Colin

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11-26-2006 09:21 AM  11 years agoPost 56
Furious Predator

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Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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magnetic striping paper
whats that? and how does that work?

i dont see how anyone could argue about continental drift. a 4 year old putting puzzles together can look at a map and see the evidence.

but i guess its like the hard headed church that went against grvity and a round earth, and that the entire galaxy in fact did not revolve around the earth.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
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11-26-2006 11:27 AM  11 years agoPost 57
Colin Mill

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England

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Hi Shawn

The magnetic striping thing is very interesting. It's known that periodically (timescales of the order 10,000 years) the earth's magnetic field reverses quite suddenly! As new sea floor is created as the continents move apart iron in the rock is aligned with the field at the time it cools and leaves behind a record of the magnetic environment. So the rock either side of a mid ocean trench is magnetically striped!

As you say, its amazing that the physicists didn't see it before (but we are a breed that don't play with jigsaws)

Anyway, although I'm a physicist I'm always careful about science that rides roughshod over information from historians etc. as if they are all stupid (my elder daughter is a historian and I know when I've met my intellectual match!)

Colin

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11-27-2006 12:47 AM  11 years agoPost 58
Furious Predator

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Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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that sounds neat, thanks for sharing. i think its amazing the things we can find out about the earths history by using small signs like ice cores and that magnetic stripping deal.

Shawn
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11-27-2006 03:25 AM  11 years agoPost 59
philip 01

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i watched the al gore documentary and thought is was very interesting. time will tell. i certainly would not be willing to bet against it.

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11-27-2006 06:45 AM  11 years agoPost 60
kookboy

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Vancouver, BC

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Ocean temperature flux
I've been surfing in the ocean up in northwest Washington and along the British Columbia coast on the Queen Charlotte islands in Canada for over 20 years.

About 10 or so years ago, the temperature fluctuation between the summer and winter seasons started to feel a little 'odd'.

As I went through Univ, I took a few meteorology and oceanography courses. Needless to say, they were a waste of money and time as it was just a book reading/tree hugging bag of formula's I needed to memorize to pass a test. To make it short, the ocean temperature was climbing.

I have felt this first hand and have been monitoring it since the early 90's.

From 96 to 98, I surfed in February in my short for a few weeks.

Normally, the temp during this time fluctuates between 44 and 48 degrees.

That two year period, in Feb, the temp was around 60 degrees.

From then on, the winter surfing season (oct to march) has been getting shorter, while the summer surf seasons may - aug has been getting longer while the ocean temps have been rising ever so slowly.

Personally, I agree.

There's always two sides to a story/theory and there definitely is lots of information pro/con for Global Warming.

All I know is my own personal experience that I believe in and that is a fact.

The ocean is getting warmer.

What that means for the atmosphere/earth, I can't say.

All I know is that it's really wierd and continues to bewilder me.

... But honey it was only $$$

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