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HomeOff Topics › An Inconvenient Truth
11-24-2006 07:04 PM  11 years agoPost 21
Stet

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Key Largo FL

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Scrap your car, turn off your lights, quit working where they use power. Stop eating so that you can save the planet for your starving children.

People = CO2

Do you know about the mini ice age and it's consequences to humanity? Not caused by humans, and much more severe in it's consequences to humans.

Pass all the laws you can to destroy your economy. But don't worry, China and India and the rest of the world won't bother. At least you can feel really good about yourself as you freeze to death in the dark.

keepin' it real

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11-24-2006 07:42 PM  11 years agoPost 22
Colin Mill

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England

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My worry is that the amount we are now spending on global warming based on the current level of understanding vastly outweighs the amount of money spent on the research that got us there. A bit like buying a house based on a survey someone did for a dollar. I was for about 30 years involved in atmospheric physics research – cloud microphysics in particular - and I have to say it was one of the worst funded areas of research I can think of. It is also an area of research where the measurements are extremely difficult. It's not uncommon to fly similarly equipped aircraft side by side throught the same cloud and get very depressed by the lack of agreement between their data sets. There are some things that we have a very good handle on (like the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere) However, there are some major areas that we need more work in (and now that I have left it it's interesting to find that cloud physics is one of them!) Although CO2 is an important greenhouse gas water vapour is the main one - accounting for about 75% of the total greenhouse effect. So anything that affects the evaporation into or precipitation from the atmosphere is important. Also, reflection from clouds (albedo) also has a major effect on total warming. I believe our understanding of cloud physics is far from good enough at the moment. I'm not saying we should do nothing but I think we need to do more research in this sort of area to make sure we are doing the right thing.

Colin

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11-24-2006 07:46 PM  11 years agoPost 23
Flyboy50

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MA - USA

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The ice caps have melted, moved, expanded, etc hundreds of times. Humans have an insignificant effect on global warming. Every time a volcano errupts, it makes car pollution look like a single termite eating a house. Despite the insignificance of human caused pollution, huge progress is being made to shut the liberals up.

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11-24-2006 07:52 PM  11 years agoPost 24
Furious Predator

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Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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have any of you actually watched the video? just because its Gore doing the speech doesn't make it any less relavant, he spits out a lot of numbers, where the only explanation is us.

maybe some of you stereotypical hard headed americans should maybe look into it before bantering on with your opinions. even if its just a theory, why the hell not save money on more efficient devices?
i guess all that smog that forms over citys was always over that spot with or without a city there too eh?

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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11-24-2006 07:55 PM  11 years agoPost 25
Colin Mill

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England

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It's a very interesting exercise to divide the resources of the earth by the human population so that you can get a handle on what impact you are likely to have. Here are a few of the figures:-

The earth as apportioned per person

Total surface = 83,300 sq.m (206 acres)
Land area = 27,750 sq.m
Sea area = 55,550 sq.m
mass of atmosphere = 844,000 tonnes
mass of atmospheric CO2 = 500 tonnes
mass of the oceans = 233 million tonnes

Solar energy (at top of atmosphere) = 120 MWatts (about 650 cars on full bore!)

Note that the top 4m of the oceans has the same thermal capacity as the whole atmosphere

You would have thought we could play in all that lot without making a total mess of the whole thing!

Colin

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11-24-2006 08:00 PM  11 years agoPost 26
Furious Predator

rrProfessor

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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see....most of you guys have this arguement...
"the world has gone through bad time before and just keeps comming back"
well thats true, but if you were to actually pull your head out of your A$$ and look at the numbers, you would see that all of a sudden, when our population explodes, the numbers are tripple then what anything else has ever happened as far back as 6-7 ice ages. how is it possible you can still find it in yourself to deny that we may play a role in that? doesn't it seem like just a bit of a coincidence?
but..who cares....keep buying hummers and SUV's and dont save money.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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11-24-2006 08:13 PM  11 years agoPost 27
JitsuGuy

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Tulsa, Oklahoma

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Political bologna... According to the good book there is a lot of time on this earth left... Well at least 1000 years which is the Millennial Reign of the Church after the Tribulation.

But carry on.

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11-24-2006 08:43 PM  11 years agoPost 28
Flyboy50

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MA - USA

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I agree about cutting smog and co2 etc, but "an inconvenient truth" is an extremely corrupt movie. They only show the bad stuff and make it sound like the earth is in its last days. It's trying to scare everybody so we start cutting down on pollution.
if you were to actually pull your head out of your A$$ and look at the numbers
You need to do the same and take a look at all the progress we're making. Have you ever heard of a hybrid or a fuel cell car? How about solar cars or biodiesel? All of these things are in the works to replace the current cars on the road.

If you're so serious about ending this pollution, why don't you ride your bike to work everyday? And stop flying the helis (here comes the hate mail ).

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11-24-2006 08:48 PM  11 years agoPost 29
Rotor

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Springfield, MO USA

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[here comes the hate mail)

Not from me Flyboy!

My motto is this..Fly...Rebuild...Fly

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11-24-2006 08:51 PM  11 years agoPost 30
Flyboy50

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MA - USA

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I'm not actually suggesting this, I'm just trying to get a point across.

Not the greatest place to use that example...

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11-24-2006 09:06 PM  11 years agoPost 31
drdot

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So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw..

ALGOR(E) is an idiot. I don't listen to idiots.
The earth has demonstrably gone through far more apocalyptic climate changes than we are capable of inducing.
Population has a way of being stabilized by nature. Deer have starvation, we have plagues. (and Muslims)
Looking at the learned Mr. Mills' post, I think I'll worry about the Muslims more right now, thanks.

John.

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11-24-2006 09:10 PM  11 years agoPost 32
Flyboy50

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MA - USA

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Population has a way of being stabilized by nature. Deer have starvation, we have plagues. (and Muslims)
So true, but you really can't critisize all the muslims. One of my best friends is from Saudi Arabia and he's perfectly normal, feels the same way as us.

Good point about the insignificance of the current climate changes (and al gore being an idiot).

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11-25-2006 02:49 AM  11 years agoPost 33
drdot

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So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw..

I'm taken to task frequently for my stand on Islam, but until somone can paint all the good Muslims a nice green, I can't for mu familys' sake assume any of the adherents of Mohammed to be trustworthy, or sane.

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11-25-2006 04:05 AM  11 years agoPost 34
philip 01

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ft worth

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it is true that we will probably not destroy the planet but we will probably destroy ourselves if we keep it up. global warming is real and a fact. primarily caused by the carbon dioxide we pump into the atmosphere. too much to reconstitute. wiping out the rain forest is already biting us in the ass. bad idea.

i'll put my money on research scientists with phd's and their data and what is happening right this second in the north pole. hard to dispute that little nugget of fact.

it is a wonder we have the problems we do when you consider how the majority of otherwise reasonably intelligent folks seem to look at things.

most folks tend to fear what they do not understand so it would make sense to just blow it off as hogwash.

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11-25-2006 04:31 AM  11 years agoPost 35
Rotor

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Springfield, MO USA

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[most folks tend to fear what they do not understand so it would make sense to just blow it off as hogwash.]

Here's what I understand....Did a lot of studying on it....and then
determined it's a hoax. A hoax that keeps a lot of scientists in business and those that believe the hoax are supporting them....

What do I fear? I fear too many people are going to believe in global warming and go off the deep end...

My motto is this..Fly...Rebuild...Fly

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11-25-2006 04:36 AM  11 years agoPost 36
TrexRookie

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San Francisco, CA

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drdot said..
I'm taken to task frequently for my stand on Islam, but until somone can paint all the good Muslims a nice green, I can't for mu familys' sake assume any of the adherents of Mohammed to be trustworthy, or sane.
Regardless of religion, people are people. They're human beings that live and die. Snap judging any person due to their religion or ethnic background is just messed up. I've known many Muslims in my life and none have shown any capability to be terrorists. Yea, some of them have hot tempers, but no more so than any other race, color or creed.

as for monkey nuttz's post,

It's not just the rain forests we gotta worry about. We kill off entire ecosystems without any remorse whatsoever. For example, depending on the type of fish they're going after, fishing trawlers can catch anywhere between 8 to 10 pounds of bicatch to every pound of "catch" that they fish for. So for one pound of that fish, 8-10 pounds of sea life is killed. Because they can be dragging for hours, all the fish in the net are essentially suffocated or crushed to death, so just throwing them back into the ocean doesn't do a whole lot of good.

Granted that example is pretty far off topic, but my point is, there is a really big picture we have to look at regarding the conservation of the Earth, but energy conservation is a good place to start.

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11-25-2006 04:41 AM  11 years agoPost 37
Stet

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Key Largo FL

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The last "mini ice age" was caused by the eruption of a number of very large volcanoes within a short period. The results were devastating during the 14th and 15th centuries, including major climate changes causing mass starvation. Some 50M humans died.

All this about CO2 is nice to think about, but the bottom line is there is nothing you can do about it. And if we all drive 70 mpg cars, it won't make a bit of difference compared to the emissions from basic industires and power. And the human population just keeps growing faster and faster.

Of course we could start building nuke plants as the europeans have, and run on all electric, but that has it's own problems and consequences.

The "inconvenient truth" is particularly inconvenient for Gore who burns orders of magnitude more than his fair share of fuel, but makes up for it by supposedly "buying CO2 credits". What a crock of poo that is.

So if you are a rich liberal, just throw money into the CO2 pot and burn all you like. And fight for laws which will put us all out of work. If you fall for his line, you are truly naive. Fortunately it is just political grandstanding and will not effect any change whatsoever.

Of course energy conservation is smart, and there are market forces which make it profitable to do so.

keepin' it real

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11-25-2006 04:55 AM  11 years agoPost 38
TrexRookie

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San Francisco, CA

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It's sad, really... how our efforts to conserve our resources have become a cash cow for some rich sap out there..

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11-25-2006 04:57 AM  11 years agoPost 39
philip 01

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ft worth

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again, if you look at the polar ice caps you will find something happening that has not happened for a long, long time. no way to dispute that when it is right in front of our faces.

i would rather err on the side of caution than blow it off because no one, and i mean no one, can prove either way so i would not just brush it off.

this "brushing off", again, bites us in the ass every time, but we still keep going for more. we give ourselves way too much credit in understanding the world around us.

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11-25-2006 05:03 AM  11 years agoPost 40
Havoc

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Ky.

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Oops I hit the apachesnow key

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