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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Virtual Fly Bar
11-23-2006 04:34 PM  11 years agoPost 1
scott sr

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SEAFORD

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Unbelievable Mikado's Virtual Flybar System is $1200.00 . WOW you can get a whole Logo RTF for that kinda money . But anyway they have them at http://www.espritmodel.com for $1200.00 if you want one . Good Luck My Friends

Scott Sr. ><> ****Support Our Troops**** ><>

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11-23-2006 05:01 PM  11 years agoPost 2
SPB

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Athens - Greece

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usd 1200??????

Hahahahahahahaha. No m8 thanks. I don't want it

My helis are flying just fine with the conventional flybar system and they will still fly like that for maaaaaaany years.


Sotiris
myhelis.com Flying Team

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11-23-2006 05:47 PM  11 years agoPost 3
SubSailor

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Austin, TX.

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Damn man, $1200!? I thought it was going to be in the $500 range....

Fromeco Field Rep.
A day without sunshine is, well.., alot like night time.

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11-23-2006 05:52 PM  11 years agoPost 4
P.J.

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Ireland

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I'm sure someone will make a better one cheaper in time lol.

P.J.

SAB Heli Division
Hyperion
Spektrum RC
Scorpion Systems
Spartan rc

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11-23-2006 06:29 PM  11 years agoPost 5
scott sr

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SEAFORD

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Yes $1200.00 US Dollars

Scott Sr. ><> ****Support Our Troops**** ><>

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11-23-2006 06:36 PM  11 years agoPost 6
iskoos

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Orlando, FL

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You will have a less complicated mechanical system but lot more complicated electronic system. Plus less $1200 in your pocket. I didn't understand the catch...

Let's wait and see. If this is something good, we will see it.

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11-23-2006 07:58 PM  11 years agoPost 7
J3DI

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Oswestry, Shropshire. UK

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I'm interested in this kinda setup: As i understand it you can have wild agility and also stability when you need it. It's all in the (electronic) setup. Less bits to bend on the head and it also reduces drag (more power).

This has gotta be the way forward (when it gets cheaper)?

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11-23-2006 08:24 PM  11 years agoPost 8
MrMel

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Gotland

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I can tell you about how it flies, sometime next week

You can save different settings, so you can have one "stable" setup, and easy switch (via the radio I think) to a diffrent wild setup.

Also Andy Rummer reported about 20% increase in power due to that you dont have to rotate the flybar..

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11-23-2006 08:37 PM  11 years agoPost 9
AV

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PA-USA

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Virtual Flybar
Would be interested in the loads on the servos with direct link to the swashplate.

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11-23-2006 08:41 PM  11 years agoPost 10
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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Mr Mel...

I reckon It's just a matter of time...Top end electrics already have plenty of power so the 20% extra power can easily be translated to a 20% increase in duration instead.

Or Same duration, same power but less weight etc etc

People lauged when they priced out a Fury Ion, motor, controller, batteries etc..but for some folk money is not the deciding factor.... 'lucky barstewards'

This is new technology..the possibilites are not to be overlooked and we will be seeing a lot more of this in the not to distant future..

This could well be the next big step..just like heading hold Gyro's..mark my words

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11-23-2006 08:41 PM  11 years agoPost 11
PaulJC

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Hertfordshire UK

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Would be interested in the loads on the servos with direct link to the swashplate.
On most models the servos directly drive the swash plate, i think you mean the swash directly driving the blades.

Re-entering the atmosphere...

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11-23-2006 08:55 PM  11 years agoPost 12
MrMel

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Gotland

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Top end electrics already have plenty of power so the 20% extra power can easily be translated to a 20% increase in duration instead.
Exactly what I am counting on, My L14 now produces 3.0kw (4.1hp) so I dont need more power, however, If I can keep that power and get 20% more runtime, it would be very nice

+ its not a total loss, because this will replace your gyro, reports from ordinary people says its as good as the 611, which I will be replacing. Then I can sell the 611 if I want, to get some money back

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11-23-2006 10:01 PM  11 years agoPost 13
Portblock

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Van Nuys, CA

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I think this is great for the scale pilot.

Also, I think its a cool gadget, but to costly initialy. The flybar is mechanical, simple, gets the job done.

This is an area that is over designed at the moment, just in my opinion. as the years pass, it may jsut be the standard.

I see a future, you buy the Heli-Controller, plug your reciver into it, and it gives you:

Virtual Fly-Bar
Heading Hold Gyro
Co-Pilot
Pre-programmed stunts. (push button tic-tocs)
Pre-programmed patterns.

Wait, we have all this, its just too big to fit in to an rc heli

The voices in my head can beat up the voices in your head.

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11-23-2006 10:34 PM  11 years agoPost 14
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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1200 is ridiculous

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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11-23-2006 10:37 PM  11 years agoPost 15
Furious Predator

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Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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wow...price is way too steep for now....but....justw hen i thought model heli technology was slowing down, and not much more could be done, someone comes out with an inovation like this!!!
if money was no object then i would get one, but i'm in college...i need every penny!

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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11-23-2006 10:58 PM  11 years agoPost 16
AV

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PA-USA

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Pauljc
Actually, I meant what I said. Please don't take that offensively. The way it appears to me, the swashplate drives the bell hiller mixer which drives the head. Although there is a direct link to the blades from the swashplate, there is a cushion affect that the flybar can absorb to my observation.

With the flybarless head, the blade loads appear to be %100 transmitted to the servos through the swashplate. That is why I was wondering what kind of loads were at the servos.

When I fly the Hiller 12E, there was not a substantial amount of force on the stick. (no hydraulics, only the mixer up on the head) Then when I first flew the Jet Ranger with Hydraulics off, there was a substantial amount of control load through the stick.

It goes with out saying that the loads on the servos would be higher. I just wonder what the difference would be.

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11-23-2006 11:08 PM  11 years agoPost 17
PaulJC

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Hertfordshire UK

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You are correct that the load wil be increased, weather it will be enough to cause problems can only be told, i wonder what the crash situation would be with regards to the shock loads being passed directly to the swash and therefore the servos.
Then when I first flew the Jet Ranger with Hydraulics off, there was a substantial amount of control load through the stick.
I do believe (correct me if i'm wrong) that in full scale if the hydraulics are off there is in fact a resistance caused by the hydraulic system causing the increased control resistance.

Re-entering the atmosphere...

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11-23-2006 11:17 PM  11 years agoPost 18
Furious Predator

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Kitchener, Ontario, Canada

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I do believe (correct me if i'm wrong) that in full scale if the hydraulics are off there is in fact a resistance caused by the hydraulic system causing the increased control resistance.
you can fix that with a knife...cut the lines, and i'm sure you will have a ton-o-fun .

coorect me if i'm wrong. but the R22 heli uses cables to control the swash...right? i know its a smaller heli, but when i got to fly one i noticed very little resistance on the controls. it was similar to a Cesna i flew, very light on the stick.

Shawn
Team Leisure-Tech
Team HelixRC

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11-24-2006 08:55 AM  11 years agoPost 19
Colin Mill

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England

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Hi AV
That is why I was wondering what kind of loads were at the servos.
You can probably get a very good idea of the change in cyclic loads in going from a flybar to a flybarless setup by looking at the washout mixing arm lengths on your heli. These arm lengths set the fraction of the main blade pitch link load that is transmitted to the swashplate. Consider also that in a flybarless system the collective pitch goes directly to the blades giving more collective change for a given swashplate movement. Also flybarless cyclic pitch throws are not usually very large so the total swashplate movement required would be significantly reduced. This offers the possibility of using a greater mechanical advantage between the servo and the swashplate by, say, shorter servo arms. On balance I don't think the load on the servos need go up significantly.

Colin (CSM)

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11-24-2006 09:32 AM  11 years agoPost 20
Lorents

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Oslo, Norway

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Hello,

Just wanted to add a couple more cool things about the V-bar:

- 15-20% more grunt or longer flying times (or a combination).
- On eCCPM helis the swash mixing will be done in the Vbar unit and not on the radio.
- Flying in windy/gusty conditions should be a lot easier.
- Reduced part count should give cheaper crashes, given you dont destroy the vbar unit. If you have a spare pair of blades, spindle, and main shaft you could be back in the air in short time.
- The reduced drag in the rotor head also have an advantage in autos.
- I think you can switch between two different parameter sets on the Vbar from the radio. This makes it possible to have totally different behaviours in idle up 1 and 2.
- The tail gyro is replaced with the Vbar, and I think the system can compensate for sudden pitch and cyclic changes in a different way than traditional gyros (not sure about the details here though).
- I think its aimed at people flying 3D, but should also be perfect in scale and AP ships (lift more gear). You will probably not be able to compete with it in F3C competitions.

A lot of research have gone into this system - its a lot more than just two extra gyros stabilizing a heli. If the system works as good as I hope it should now be possible to set up a 30-size electric heli (Logo 10) so that it have the same feel and stability in the air as the bigger helis have

Hopefully I'll get the Vbar soon and be able to do a build/setup thread if anyone is interested?

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMain Discussion › Virtual Fly Bar
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