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Other › Almost killed my on heli on DX6
11-23-2006 04:05 AM  11 years agoPost 1
oopsididitagain

rrVeteran

Dubai

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Hi all ,

After a long weekend of down grounded time , i figured i was good enough on the stock tx from the cp2. Hence i did the move to go separate and put a DX6 system on the cp2 instead.

After setup up everything , check pitch are good , cyclic in correct direction , and collective aren't binding.

I try to hover the heli for the first time and around mid stick it suddenly jumped up. I dont have the sticky collective as i already changed that from stock tx. this was just crazy , then it crashed and i quickly cut the throttle , i thought i smashed it cause i saw some parts flew out.

after checking nothing was damage and there is no wobble. *phew* i just put in new everything on it.

can someone help me out here? on the stock i can hover tail in and nose in but now its like a totally different heli.

here is my settings.

travel adjustmen: All stock 100% settings
pitch low normal: 0%
pitch mid normal: 50%
pitch high normal: 100%

pitch high Sport: 100%
pitch low sport: 0%
pitch mid sport: 50%

pitch low hold: 0%
pitch mid hold: 50%
pitch high hold: 100%

Throttle high normal: 95%
Throttle mid normal: 50%
Throttle low normal: 0%

Throttle low sport: 100%
Throttle mid sport: 50%
Throttle high sport: 100%

mix rvu :0%
mix rvd: 0%
mix all: 0%

mix ccpm
cp2: 60%
cp3: 60%
cp6: 30%

aileron R
ele R
rud R
ger N
pit N
thr N

D/R elo: 100%
D/R AIO: 100%

expo ELO: 30%
expo AIO: 30%

subtrim:

ail: +25
ele: +14
rud 0
ger 0
pit 0
thr 0

Any advise guys? my setup is a 3 cell lipo , brushed motor , and heat sink . stock everything with wooden esyky sym

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11-23-2006 06:02 AM  11 years agoPost 2
hdphil

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sacramento, ca

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maybe change the pitch curve

pitch low normal: 0% 35
pitch mid normal: 50%
pitch high normal: 100% 90

make's the pitch curve a little smoother

Throttle mid normal: 50% 65

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11-23-2006 06:45 AM  11 years agoPost 3
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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Here's the curves I've been running lately and liking -

Throttle Normal 0-80-100
Pitch Normal 25-50-100

Throttle Sport 100-100-100 or 100-85-100
Pitch Sport 0-50-100

Throttle Hold 0-0-0
Pitch Hold 0-50-100

-

I have no idea why your heli jumped on you.

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11-23-2006 06:46 AM  11 years agoPost 4
oopsididitagain

rrVeteran

Dubai

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Isn't a linear pitch good for a rookie? i dont really see it on my stock tx but on the dx6 radio on the cp2. on normal mode lowest stick it actually has a lot of negative pitch , hence around 40-45% left stick i give it right stick to 3 o'clock it tends to drift a little to the left instead.

and i dont know if it is me or not but i had to go down on propo and gyro gain on the esky "4 in 1" unit after putting on the dx6 compared to my stock esky tx , why is that?

captain chaos: thanks a lot to share the settings but i dont think im anywhere as a good pilot as you are =) , im just a super rookie with tail in and nose in hover *grins* do u still think your setting will do me good?

Are my other numbers good? if possible i hope you expert/advance pilots could explain each function and what it does to the heli. that would be awesome.

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11-23-2006 07:08 AM  11 years agoPost 5
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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The Normal Pitch curves we suggested are 2-part linear (upper and lower halves) - You don't need -10° pitch in normal mode so you can desensitize the lower half by only using -3° to -5° which is enough to land the heli in stiff winds - The upper half is still linear 0° to +10°.

Sport and Hold should be kept fully linear -10° 0° +10° though.

-

I also don't know why your 4-in-1 would need adjustment with the DX6 -

-

The curves I posted are intended to keep the head speed steady in the flight range of Normal mode like it is in Sport mode so the tail won't get torqued around by a significantly changing throttle - It makes the heli much more stable and I believe it's a much smarter way to go -

You can use the alternate V'ed Sport curve I posted if you're not comfortable with strait 100% - But There's no need to fear running aggressive headspeeds especially with the stock brushed motor as the little heli really needs all the power it can muster to achieve and maintain decent stability.

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11-23-2006 07:23 AM  11 years agoPost 6
oopsididitagain

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Dubai

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it's just such a different bird already right now.

well now i felt that the heli is not as sensitive to stick inputs. like it takes longer throw to correct movement say to the left or to the right , rudder , front/back. i decrease the expo back to 0 , is there any other functions that i can use to shorten the throw of the cyclic? i felt that it's a bit slow with the longer throws.

i tried playing with the mixing swash numbers to increase it but i cant go any higher as i will hear the servo buzzing sound coming out.

thanks a lot for the input guys. the heli hover so much more smoother with the new pitch. now i can get it off the ground with the training gears thrown back in again *sigh* .... need to get used to the new heli movement.

hope to hear more inputs guys.

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11-23-2006 03:16 PM  11 years agoPost 7
hdphil

rrApprentice

sacramento, ca

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do you have a hh gyro? if not, you might want to consider getting one
also,try setting your D/R 1 with 70 travel and 20% expo for hovering.

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11-23-2006 03:27 PM  11 years agoPost 8
bexusflexus

rrApprentice

Tulsa, OK

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Your CCPM CP6 value (Pitch) is very low. What kind of pitch range do you get from this? I usually have mine set around 60. Maybe you could play with that. You have 30% expo that is pretty high. That makes a Trex real mushy. Perhaps that is fine for the CP2 though. Good luck.

even not doing anything would have been better than nothing...

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11-23-2006 04:29 PM  11 years agoPost 9
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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I believe a lot of those settings he got from me - With HS-55 servos CP6 gives me about +/-12° I believe - I think it was about the same when I used S75 servos - Since I'm also using a CP2 head my swash values should work the same for him -

I use 30% expo because it's just beyond a linear response and I like just a little extra precision control (I think most people use around 20% which I think is usually near linear response)- It doesn't feel mushy to me - Maybe that's just my stick style - But this is a creature comfort feature anyways so will vary by the creature -

Lower rates does not sound like what he's asking for since he said he tried decreasing expo and increasing swash deflection but it was already maxed like mine is at 60% CP2/3 -

I think it's unusual to hear people wanting more sensitive response with a CP2 or BCPP though - But I'm afraid a heli just doesn't get any more sensitive than full swash deflection at full rates with no expo - That should be as quick of response as it can get.

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11-23-2006 04:36 PM  11 years agoPost 10
oopsididitagain

rrVeteran

Dubai

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captain chaos: thanks a lot , so the only thing that can affect the stick throw is the expo values on it?.......

hdphil: *laughs* Don't intend to do any upgrades on the cp2 as i would like to get the money into my trex SA. yes its using the stock rate gyro in the 3 in 1.

Can I know how does adjusting the dual rates affect the gyro stability? well i felt even at 0 expo the heli is not as responsive. Maybe with the training gears and all it is a little on the heavy side right now.

really hope you guys can explain to me how changing the dual rates function and expo value function can affect the flight characteristic.

and i've read somewhere about a ATS function but cant find it in the dx6. since im on stock rate gyro , should i use some revo mixing on it( i dont quite understand what revo mix does too)?

my cp2 is all stock just has heat sink and 3 cell brushed setup. stock esky servos and head etc too =). Captain Chaos is correct about my swash mix values , any higher numbers on CH6 will buzz the servo.

What will happen if i take the CH2 and CH3 on swash mix values to 80% or 90% instead of 60% , will that increase the cyclic response( since im giving the swash more angle to tilt)

on Pitch low normal: 35% , normal mode low stick on the pitch gauge i'm getting almost -2 degrees pitch. Is that low enough to bring back the heli down if it gets too high up outdoor?

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11-23-2006 05:26 PM  11 years agoPost 11
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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Dual rates have nothing to do with stability of anything - They're just alternate sets of overall deflection values - Dual rate function let's you use 2 different max control settings at the flip of a switch -

Exponential changes the position of the servo arms in relation to the stick positions mainly for the purpose of desensitizing control response around center stick as control response is more sensitive when the linkages are nearest 90° to the servo arms and least sensitive when linkages are deflected away from 90° to the servo arm - In otherwords if you watch a servo's relation to the linkage attached to it you see that when the linkage is at or near 90° to the servo arm the other end of the linkage moves about the same distance as the servo arm but when the servo arm is deflected farther then it starts arcing away from the linkage line of travel and the end of the linkage no longer moves the same distance as the rotating servo arm - Usually about 20% expo softens the near 90° travel to match the not near 90° travel so the response remains the same thoughout the travel of the servo arm in relation to the stick deflections.

ATS (Automatic Tail System) is Rev(o) Revolution) mix which is a mix between throttle and rudder that increases tail rotor power with increased main rotor power to counter the resulting increased torque to help keep the tail from rotating when increasing the throttle/collective.

-

Increasing the swash mix values CP2 and CP3 beyond 60% will deflect (tilt)the swash more and likely beyond it's deflection range causing it to bind against the main shaft and itself.

-

-2° is probably enough to get the heli down but I recommend at least another degree or two by changing it from 35% to around 30% maybe - I'm using -5° at 25% myself - I think -4° is pretty standand - Keep in mind that low stick in normal mode cuts the throttle completely off so you're not likely to hit your low point in flight - A couple negative degrees below mid stick will help keep the heli pinned to the ground while it's spooling up until you're ready to lift off.

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11-23-2006 05:38 PM  11 years agoPost 12
oopsididitagain

rrVeteran

Dubai

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

thanks captain chaos ,

well i tried lower pitch but the transition i dont know if it's my setup but it seems a bit violent once it goes from 25% to 50% left stick.

on the D/R , what happens if u go less than 100% and less ( since expo de-sensitise the stick movements, what does D/R do ?), and for expo so the higher number you go the less sensitive it will be , so 80% expo is just like no control over the heli anymore?

and i have no HH gyro , how should adjust revo mixing to get the best of the tail control , cause i find i cant use anything higher than 60% in my Throttle mid Normal or the heli will just go crazy with the tail with the sudden throttle increase no matter how slowly i increment the stick.

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11-23-2006 06:03 PM  11 years agoPost 13
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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The range between 25% collective pitch and 50% collective pitch should be the opposite of violent as it's spreading 25% of the collective pitch range over 50% of the stick deflection range resulting in twice as much stick deflection required to change pitch compared to the 50% to 100% range where 50% of the pitch range is matched to 50% of the stick deflection.

-

Expo decreases control response around center stick only and does not effect the full control at extreme stick deflectins - Lower rates decrease the full amount of control at extreme stick deflections - Expo = Less control around center stick - D/R = Less control overall at full stick deflections.

-

I have never really needed to use Revo on my BCP - You can try some if you want but I don't have any numbers for you as I never used it.

-

The new normal throttle curve I posted (0-80-100) is intended to ramp up the throttle to a higher mid-point value so the speed will increase more sensitively than usual in the lower half of stick deflection but not change the throttle much in the higher stick deflection - It's just to get the heli spooled up to a higher more stable head speed and keep it in a tighter range above mid stick which should prevent torquing the tail which should prevent the need for Revo mix - The senstitive ramp up shouldn't be a concern to you as the heli won't lift off below mid stick anyways - Once it does lift off everything should be very smooth and stable throughout the upper half stick deflection where it counts.

-

If your tail is misbehaving then I suggest you try adjusting the proportional mix on the 3-in-1 and if it still won't behave then try replacing the tail motor as it may be worn out.

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11-23-2006 06:17 PM  11 years agoPost 14
oopsididitagain

rrVeteran

Dubai

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thanks captain chaos ,

great explanation on the d/r and expo: but can you provide some example in relation to heli movement if you were to increase/decrease the value in the both mentioned?...... as i understand it increaseing value in expo will make it slower for stick , and increasing d/r will make things faster?

are u using the stock rate gyro in the 3 in 1 too? i have stock everything......i shall not try with revo mix since u did not do it. am charging the battery now. will give it another go with the higher mid throttle curve and see if it does torque the tail... hmmm ( cause now i adjusted evertyhing to be very stable at 50% throttle mid )...

Have a great thanksgiving. thanks a lot again for the help here . hope u can still look back into this thread once in a while =)

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11-23-2006 06:49 PM  11 years agoPost 15
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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Expo = Higher values allow you to move the stick around center a lot which will move the heli less/slower in relation - More precise control during hover - But move the stick farther out and the heli will move more/faster in relation - Plently of overall control for fast transtitions and flips/rolls.

D/R = Lower values will result in less/slower response overall making transitions and flips/rolls slower - The heli will only react at the speed you assign and no faster - Example if your rates are low and you try to flip or roll it may take a long time for the heli get all the way around.

-

I'm using a HH gyro right now but spent a lot of time flying with the stock 3-in-1 gyro.

-

There should be no reason to adjust for stability at 50% throttle as the heli should not even get off the ground at half stick - Adjust for stability at 75% throttle (3/4 stick) when the heli is actually flying (hovering).

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11-23-2006 07:03 PM  11 years agoPost 16
oopsididitagain

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Dubai

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wow great explaination captain chaos , so much more clearer now. so since d/r is already 100% , the only way to increase cyclic then is the hardware itself? like changing servo etc?

true about half stick not getting air , but when it does get like 1/2" off , that is before my setting alteration , the heli just jumps and spins, i dont even know what numbers or seetings to change so i can use 75% throttle ad throttle mid.

thanks a lot

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11-23-2006 07:10 PM  11 years agoPost 17
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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You can use more than 100% D/R values for increased rate as long as it doesn't bind the mechanics which likely it will.

-

If your heli is properly setup mechanically then using the pitch and throttle curves I posted should hover the heli at 3/4 stick in both modes.

Don't try to set things up to hover at mid stick - That's not incorrect - Hover at 3/4 stick.

In Normal mode the lower half of the stick range is just for spooling up/down - All actual flying will be done in the upper half of the stick range.

In Sport mode all upright flying will be in the upper half of the stick range like Normal mode and all inverted flying will be in the lower half of the stick range.

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11-23-2006 07:17 PM  11 years agoPost 18
BikeNBoatN

rrVeteran

Santa Ana, CA USA

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Just a thought. I don't recall seeing if you still have weights on your flybar. If so, that will slow down cyclic response considerably. Slide them evenly towards to the center, maybe halfway in if you've always flown with them all the way out next to the paddle. Once you get familiar with how it feels, you can slide them all the way to the center, or remove them completely.

Brent
Slow and Smooth 2-D Scale Flyer
AMA #35431

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11-23-2006 07:32 PM  11 years agoPost 19
oopsididitagain

rrVeteran

Dubai

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wow thanks captain chaos , i re-adjusted the propo and now on 75% throttle mid normal , it seems to hold pretty well.

well now everything is setup as u said and i do get to hover only a hair shy to 3/4 stick but the 3 in 1 is already showing red. is it alright to always fly it showing red? cause i kinda felt it was the values that i put in the throttle curve. will it damage the 3 in 1?

man it's like a whole new heli now to me.

thanks bikeNboat , yes weight still on. i guess i still dont have enough skills to take them off yet =).

On my blade tracking , i know the cp2 head slop doesnt allow it to track to well.

initial condition: 0-50% stick , tracks good but when the throttle went higher suddenly it split into 1/4" ,

i adjusted it by lowering the higher blade(blue) a little and making the lower blade(red) higher to balance things out.

now 0-50% it is way off ( blue blade is at the lower portion while red blade is on top) , like a little less than 1/4" gap but when 50% stick and above , it tracks very good. so should i stick with my new setup?

thanks a lot guys , i shall spend my thanksgiving adjusting and try to fly the new thing.

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11-23-2006 07:37 PM  11 years agoPost 20
Micro-Maniac

rrElite Veteran

Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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The red light indicates when the ESC is actually operating at full throttle - It's perfectly fine to fly it like that and is really best to do the mojority of flying at full ESC power.

-

Glad to hear it's all falling into place and behaving well for you.

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