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Other › Making the nitro guys mad with my 600
11-23-2006 01:55 AM  11 years agoPost 21
3D WASP

rrVeteran

Home of the Reagan Library, CA

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Yeah their will always be a few jerks here and there. Nitro/Electric I dont really care what your flying, its a heli! Therefor it MUST be cool.

Timing is everything

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11-23-2006 01:59 AM  11 years agoPost 22
Nashville

rrElite Veteran

Formerly Music City now back home in Sunny Florida

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Hey TMoore I was just chatting with one of your fellow flyers, don't know his name, he has the turbines though. I'm going to be out of town for the next two weekends then I am going to join you guys the following weekend. Where is the field and what is the best time to come? Thanks and happy Thanksgiving!

I was Spektrum when Spektrum wasn't cool

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11-23-2006 02:06 AM  11 years agoPost 23
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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Saturday and Sunday's WX permitting are the best time due to the time change.

When we are on DST and it gets dark later we fly every day of the week.

The field is right next to the Cookeville High School.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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11-23-2006 02:13 AM  11 years agoPost 24
bexusflexus

rrApprentice

Tulsa, OK

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I guess I have to add my $.02 here. Don't notice any animosity between gas and elec at all. Heli guys seem to love all helis no matter what the power supply. I have both elec and nitro and can't make a distinction as to which I like better based on "fuel type". However, I can say that I like flying my Fury better than my Trex 450SE. The Trex crashes, well lately, constantly. I have yet to crash my Fury (knock, knock, knock). I only like the Fury better because it is bigger and easier to fly for a beginner. The Trex is more squirrely and for some reason I am not scared to crash it. The thought of crashing the Fury alarms me so I am alot more conservative in the way I fly it.

The Trex does get 5X the flight time of my Nitro. Wish I could change that but convenience is too great with electrics.

If I had a Trex 600 I think I would be more conservative w/it also. It is much more dangerous than the 450 IMO. However, all that being said I still love the "little" 450. After, all my crashing I have learned to rebuild from the ground up in around 4hrs. That's a far cry from my original build time (36hrs).

even not doing anything would have been better than nothing...

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11-23-2006 02:18 AM  11 years agoPost 25
Nashville

rrElite Veteran

Formerly Music City now back home in Sunny Florida

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Hey Bexus,

Man do I ever know what you are talking about. I actually just sold my 450se to my buddy at HobbyTown here in Nashville. I had just one too many "squirly" flights resulting in a dumb crash. They are great when they are working but after flying a larger heli the 450 just felt like a toy. And an easy one to crash. I was exactly the same, not afraid to crash so I did silly things. The 600 is a world of difference and stability. And yes I am so much more careful with it. I'm setting a record, must be over 50 flights in a row with no crashes (knocking on wood). Take care.

I was Spektrum when Spektrum wasn't cool

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11-23-2006 03:53 AM  11 years agoPost 26
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

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Went down to look at the vibe90 today, and ended up buying a 12Z instead
Can you blame me? these things are sweet!

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11-23-2006 04:46 AM  11 years agoPost 27
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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Each to their own, I will not own a nitro heli again.

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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11-23-2006 07:23 AM  11 years agoPost 28
jh4db536

rrApprentice

Monterey Park, California

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i flew a raptor50 for the first time last week. first time flying a nitro heli (i hovered one before). until then, i had been all electric.

makes me glad that i dont own a T600 because it would be in the for sale forum immediately. aside from the mess, the nitro has WAY more torque (flying on CRAP/stale/low N% gas too)...it does drink gas though, but the fun factor was there unlike the T600. The smoke is kinda deadly too, there were times i lost orientation due to the exhaust.

it also seemed to auto better (weird) running the same 600mm TT blades that i had in the first T600 that i built.

must keep track of the voltage on the Rx pack though. nitro still has to recharge at some point.

the 12z radio can die. i had to setup one once. it asked for an equation to setup the pitch and throttle curves...can you believe that? setting up 9 or whatever points (in the points mode) was a major pain in the @$$. i was ready to throw the radio off a cliff, it took me over a day to program the damn thing and the heli still wasnt flyable. instructions are the worst ever.

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11-23-2006 07:58 AM  11 years agoPost 29
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

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the 12z radio can die. i had to setup one once. it asked for an equation to setup the pitch and throttle curves...can you believe that? setting up 9 or whatever points (in the points mode) was a major pain in the @$$. i was ready to throw the radio off a cliff, it took me over a day to program the damn thing and the heli still wasnt flyable. instructions are the worst ever.
They certainly aren't for everyone You can always run simple linear curves instead of using all the throttle points.. (by which you would simply adjust 3 AFR numbers and D/R, instead of all the pitch points, leaving them from 0-100 linear). In fact, the 12Z has 6 different types of selectable curve programmiing flavors, be it bar, line, dot, linear etc. Linear being adjustable by two simple dial rotations. you can even adjust the number of points your T curve has

I like it for the FEEL of the radio, cause everything else feels like crap. A comfy radio helps me to fly better.
WAY more torque
I don't know about that one, but I'm trying to find out
I heard the 600 can put out 3HP.. but can't find HP output spec for a hyper raptor 50.. not to mention the 600 will spool back up to headspeed faster, and fly awesome in the right setup config.

I have practically stalled the blades on a hyper 50 raptor, and I can only bog the 600 down to 1500 rpm minimum at 14* pitch!
it took me over a day to program the damn thing and the heli still wasnt flyable.
I got it today, and will be flying the 600 with it tomorrow

(sorry to yet again stray from the topic)

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11-23-2006 03:57 PM  11 years agoPost 30
jh4db536

rrApprentice

Monterey Park, California

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i was disappointed when i flew the T600 on a TPX, 100% curves, and the recommended blades. i dont think it likes 6s much, i'd probably have to fly it 10s and ionX/actro motor to get the feel im looking for.

as for the nitro, it DOES bog even though it has torque while the electrics have a different reaction and feel (the consequences are probably worst in nitrO). the nitro recovers the rpm very fast if you manage it. not saying electrics are weak...something is not right in the 600...probably align's decision to make it 6s/budget.

basically, the R50 had the feel of power that i Expected of a heli that size.

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11-23-2006 04:24 PM  11 years agoPost 31
WarMace

rrNovice

Cincinnati, OH - USA

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Casey:

The OS 50 Hyper puts out about 1.9 HP. My understanding was that with 6S the 600 puts out less power than a 50. 3HP would be amazing (maybe with 10S).

I would definately be interested in how much HP the 600 puts out with 6S if anybody knows for sure.

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11-23-2006 04:55 PM  11 years agoPost 32
OICU812

rrMaster

Edson, Alberta, Canada

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I can not comment on the exact HP a 600 on 6S puts out, I can tell you though from owning a few 50 sized nitros in past with OS Hypers in them, piped and tuned to perfection that a 600 rex with 6S will eat a nitro 50 pretty easy. I have more than a few freinds still with 50 nitros, and 600 rexes etc to directly compare to so as they say,,,,proof is in the pudding. There are alot of threads going on what has more power yadda yadda,,, one thing that is disturbing is there is always alot of bashing to electrics it would seem from several nitro fellas, now there is no need to debate, only thing bothers me is that most times there are claims of no power etc is from people who have not tried both or seen both, nuff said. Cheers

...Once upon a time there were Nitros, flybars and frequency pins...

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11-23-2006 04:55 PM  11 years agoPost 33
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

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recommended blades
Just out of curiousity, which blades were those? Blade choice can seriously effect the way the 600 flies.
I would definately be interested in how much HP the 600 puts out with 6S if anybody knows for sure.
Me too. I have no way of knowing myself. I have an eagle tree unit if that can help me figure it out. Relay the equation and I'll find out for you I keep hearing the words "3 horsies" being thrown around, and would like to know if it's true myself.

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11-23-2006 05:33 PM  11 years agoPost 34
Pitounet

rrApprentice

France

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From wikipedia

1hp is around 735 -745 watts depeneding of which kind of horse power you are considering. I suppose in US you use mechanical horsepower (you don't seem to like the metric system at all )

I have seen alot of TREX 600 graphs and they can easily put out 1800+ watts

1800/735 = 2.44 factor in the .85 typical efficiency of BL motors and you obtain approx 2.08 HP

I have seen some claims off 2200+wats with TP500/FP4900
2200/735X.85 = 2.55

So the Trex 600 seems to be able to deliver from 2.08 to 2.55 HP. It seems better than a nitro.

However this is probably around the beginning of the flight and with good packs.

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11-23-2006 05:35 PM  11 years agoPost 35
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

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here is a peak of 2720 watts... /735 you get 3.7hp before factoring in efficiency etc.. Level that to 3hp and I'm happy.
these are real life, piloted by me and eagle tree numbers.

For resolutions' sake..

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11-23-2006 05:44 PM  11 years agoPost 36
Pitounet

rrApprentice

France

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As a side note

The 600 motor train seems to be more powerfull than an OS50. However we don't know how those two compare. Maybe the HPS are more available for the Os than for a TREX. Lets say that when you'r HS drops below 1500rpm maybe the TREX power train is not able anymore to produce those 2-2.5 HP because it needs to spin faster to put out these HPs. That could be the reason why it is so critical to choose the right blades for the 600, in order not to load the rotor too much so you can always use all the available power.

The conclusion, if there is no fair comparison if you don't give both helis the setup they need. A raptor set up like a Trex 600 won't be optimal, and a Trex 600 set up as a raptor will perform poorly. Nitro guys flying a 600 probably need to rediscover some of the principles they already think they know.

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11-23-2006 06:26 PM  11 years agoPost 37
caseyjholmes

rrElite Veteran

Portland, Oregon

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2-2.5 HP because it needs to spin faster to put out these HPs
I believe it is during these times at which I bog it down to 1500 rpm, when the motor produces the MOST torque and power, being that it is loaded up. I have more graphs with rpm, and the wattage goes up when the rpm goes down.. (possibly indicating HP goes UP when I bog the motor )

Which helps to account for the bog, and helps me to understand why I can't bog it below 1500 rpm.. banging the sticks at 14* pitch doing chaos and "4 pointers" back to back.

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11-23-2006 06:58 PM  11 years agoPost 38
Raptor Rulezzz

rrKey Veteran

Rockanje, Zuid-Holland - The Netherlands

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I've had peaks of 2420 watts on my T-rex 600 and it WAS NOT bogging at all, it kept the headspeed very high.

I've flown a lot of 50's with a lot of different exhaust systems on various fuels but I have yet to find one with the power and punch that my T-rex 600 has!!

I'm running the std. equipment and FlightPower EVO 20 4900 6s1p batts, they are GREAT!

I've also got 2x R90 and a couple of 50's but I'm seriously considering selling them... I really like this T-rex 600, very convienient, quiet & soooo much fun!! Best of all, it flies WAY better than most 50's... and especially better than the R50!

Cheers,

Richard



Proud Member of Team QuickUK, Team Duralite & Sponsored by V-blades & 4rc.nl

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11-24-2006 02:25 AM  11 years agoPost 39
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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It's all good, nitro, electric or whatever comes next.

As long as you're flying, that's what counts.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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11-24-2006 05:28 AM  11 years agoPost 40
jh4db536

rrApprentice

Monterey Park, California

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"recommended" - TT 600 CF blades (no they arent SABs or Vblades). flew them on both the R50 and the 600 to make it even.

i did not even fly the heli hard to come to these conclusions. at most loops and rolls with the 600, and the R50 never even went in idle up. we did mostly climbouts and autos with the R50. i had no flight logging to aid in my judgement.

maybe the 600 needed a bigger pinion, but the headspeed sounded high enough to me. i thought it would be a lot faster given the weight advantage over the R50.

the 600 was in top brand new shape. the R50 condition was its first flight in over a year and on stale red gas that was supposed to be pink. I was very unfamiliar with the R50, as the owner bought it used and we basically flew it without even checking the settings. The T600, was setup pretty much like a trex 450 by myself +/-11 @ 100%.

the watts in the graph cant fully describe describe actual mechanical output, it only displays "hypothetical" power pulled from the battery.

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