RunRyder RC
 7  Topic Subscribe
WATCH
 1 page 937 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Gyro and governor choices??
11-21-2006 02:20 PM  11 years agoPost 1
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ok, the more I look into stuff I need for my gasser, the more Im scratching my head and wondering which way to go!
I was initially going to go with the Futaba GV1 governor but noticed the CSM revlock with USB link for easier programming, plus they do a gasser specific one....does it still need the Stator Gator to function?
Which system is best? I know that Futaba is almost twice the cost here too, hmmm, scratch scratch!

Secondly, I was going to use Futaba 611 gyro, but again the CSM 720 beats its price by a fair bit, and also has the option of USB for ease of setup, plus they do a gssser version of this as well to account for extra vibration.
Does anyone even use the USB cord?
So really I guess what Im asking is...if I go with the CSM gyro and governor for cost reasons, am I going to not be as well off as if I bought the Futaba gear in the long run?
Oh yeah, and if you say yes for either brand, could you please tell me why you prefer it over the other.
Ease of programming is also high on my list of things I want, as all my helis are electric at the moment, so breaking new ground for me here.
Cheers

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-21-2006 02:33 PM  11 years agoPost 2
z11355

rrMaster

New England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

historically, the 'gasser' version of the CSM governor is different
than the regular one:

it has slightly different programming more suitable to gassers.

it does NOT come w/ a sensor; you must provide your own StatorGator.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-21-2006 02:37 PM  11 years agoPost 3
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Ahaaa, thankyou for that.
I thought it would most likely need the Gator.

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-21-2006 02:52 PM  11 years agoPost 4
Colin Mill

rrVeteran

England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Gorn

Yes, we do gator compatible versions of both RL10 and RL20 revlocks. You may be interested to look at the manuals that are on the rcmodels.org/csm site as PDF files. (the SL720 manuals are also on that site)

Best regards

Colin (CSM)

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-21-2006 03:04 PM  11 years agoPost 5
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Colin
Thanks very much mate. I am looking at the RL20 for mine.

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 12:49 AM  11 years agoPost 6
FCM

rrElite Veteran

Surrey, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

I have the USB and the printer port connections for my CSM gyros and RL20 govenor. The USB is handy especially if you use a Notebook computer. The printer port works just great though and I find myself using this on my home PC as I am still shopping for a new Notebook for in-field use.

You will I am sure use the PC interface after you have flown the SL720 for a while but you will not need to for the initial set-up and flights. The PC menu is there for fine tuning only unless like me, you are using CSM gyros for non-standard applications such as camera mount stabilisation where the menu makes these gyros the king of the hill!

Sorry, can't provide you with any 611 feedback but I am just about to order my 4th SL720 gyro (are you reading this Colin?) to replace my last GY401 which after only 10 months of use, has started cooking my tail rotor servo on one of my Benzine helis!

Hope this helps,

Paul.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 01:07 AM  11 years agoPost 7
CustomPC

rrVeteran

Sydney, NSW - Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Gorn,

I use the CSM SL720 gyro with a Futaba 9256 servo on the tail and it's great. I can't fault it. Colin backs up his products with excellent after sales support via email and PM's here on RR.

On the strength of my experience with the gyro i bought the Revlock governor and unfortunately i find it is much too sensitive and i never had any success with it. I tried all of colin's suggested setups but could never sort it.

I put the GV-1 on and have had far greater success with it.

I'm not saying the Revlock doesn't work, but they are better suited to experienced gasser flyers and tuners.

The GV-1 is much more user friendly for someone learning gassers.

A word of advice is don't bother with enabling a governor during break-in and whilst you're still learning to tune the gasser. Burn at least 10 litres of fuel before using the governor

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 01:23 AM  11 years agoPost 8
Chopper Man100

rrVeteran

Canton GA.

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Customer support, got my interest.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 03:27 AM  11 years agoPost 9
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

FCM & CustomPC
Thanks very much guys.
Looks like 720 for sure, and I'll have a better look around at the GV1.

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 08:24 AM  11 years agoPost 10
Colin Mill

rrVeteran

England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Paul
order my 4th SL720 gyro (are you reading this Colin?)
Yes I am and many thanks

Hi CustomPC
Can I check, was it an RL10 or an RL20 you were using? It would be good to resolve that one.

Best regards

Colin

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 09:03 AM  11 years agoPost 11
CustomPC

rrVeteran

Sydney, NSW - Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Colin,

It was an RL10 but i have since sold it to help fund the GV-1.

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 11:12 AM  11 years agoPost 12
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hmmmm, the plot thickens.
Its the RL20 I was looking at.

Colin
Could you tell me if the issue that CustomPC is talking about is a known problem with the RL10 and gassers?
Naturally Id like to know if Id have similar problems as stated with the RL20.

Has anyone else used an RL20 on a gasser here?
Cheers

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 12:52 PM  11 years agoPost 13
Colin Mill

rrVeteran

England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi Gorn

During the RL20 development we did find ways of making the governor more tolerant to engine tune without reducing the quality of the rpm hold too much. Generally people have found the RL20 easy to set up with the default settings. Since the introduction of the RL20 which now takes the roll of our contest unit away from the RL10 we have applied much of what we learned in the RL20 development to make the RL10 into an extremely tolerant beginner-friendly unit (more tolerant still than the default settings of the RL20)

While, for gassers, I would still suggest the use of an offset linkage because the butterfly valve throttle has a more rapid increase in power at low openings than a barrel throttle (you probably find that your gasser hovers way below the 50% throttle point). The offset linkage gives you the best performance from the given throttle servo speed and especially avoids overspeed problems on coming out of high load situations where the butterfly has to close a long way from fully open before the power is pulled off (there is not much power change in the last 40% of the butterfly movement)

Best regards

Colin (CSM)

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 01:06 PM  11 years agoPost 14
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Thanks Colin

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 02:34 PM  11 years agoPost 15
Shiro Muji

rrVeteran

Japan

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

gorn,
You might want to consider this too.. (see http://ecsvr.com/mta/shopexd.asp?id=1796. Why?.. In principle, a governor detects and reacts only after your engine has moved out of the set RPM so it is always delayed no matter the speed of your throttle servos. With throttle-pitch mixes or curve, you anticipate the expected load and can set the throttle ahead of it and get a perky 3D maneuver--the only problem is in real world the load condition is difficult to predict 100% of the time and at one point or another the engine either over rev or bogs. Now from what I understand, in the case of ATG, the ATG circuit takes over only when this situation comes into play and filter out your command to maintain your desired preset RPM. So you get the benefit of both a governor and your throttle-pitch curve at the same time.

As for the gyro, my experience with the 611 is that its so sensitive and so fast that it cooks the rudder servo for over working it by trying to correct every tiny vibration movements of the tail. If you were to choose between futabas, get the 601 or 401, but even then you must set the gyro gain to around the 60 to 70 to avoid tail wagging.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 02:39 PM  11 years agoPost 16
gorn

rrElite Veteran

Western Australia

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hmmm, yet more options!! Arrrggg!! lol
You make a good point about the usual governor playing catch up though, makes sense to me.
I will most likely go with the CSM SL720 gyro though. GY611 is just too expensive, and really, I dont need a onboard digital display for my gyro, just means more excess weight IMO.

For the love of the hobby

PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 03:27 PM  11 years agoPost 17
Colin Mill

rrVeteran

England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

Hi

Just to clarify the situation both RL10 and RL20 make use of the throttle information from the receiver as an aid to anticipation of loads. However, I should also like to point out that this information is only updated at the frame rate of the radio system (between 14 and 22ms that's 45 to 70 times/second). In contrast, because it uses phase locking techniques and the unusual way in which the sensor is used the RevLock systems measure each rotation of the engine to a resolution 500ns. So at 15000 rpm revlock detects changes of engine speed of less than 2 rpm in one revolution of the engine (1/250 th of a second). To put this resolution into context it will detect a lag in the main rotor blades of the order of 0.1mm behind their 'ideal' position. Not, I think you will agree such a very big error! In practice many Revlock equipped helis achieve a lock that only involves the rotation of the head retarding and advancing about 1/4 of a rev when viewed in a skytach as the engine is loaded and unloaded - another consequence of using a phase-locked system.

So in general Revlock will have detected and reacted to an engine rpm change long before the next throttle position update from the receiver. It is more an aid to the system in anticipating the extent of a change than providing a speed up for the system.

Best regards

Colin (CSM)

PM  EMAIL  Attn:RR  Quote
11-22-2006 03:36 PM  11 years agoPost 18
z11355

rrMaster

New England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

And this is why Colin & CSM products kick arse!

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
11-23-2006 12:43 AM  11 years agoPost 19
FCM

rrElite Veteran

Surrey, England

My Posts: All  Forum  Topic

As for the gyro, my experience with the 611 is that its so sensitive and so fast that it cooks the rudder servo for over working it by trying to correct every tiny vibration movements of the tail. If you were to choose between futabas, get the 601 or 401, but even then you must set the gyro gain to around the 60 to 70 to avoid tail wagging.
If this is the case then the SL720 will be a far better choice. You can run the gain way up to over 100% without any wagging or tail servo cooking. The 401 cooks tail servos - don't use it.

Paul.

PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR  Quote
WATCH
 1 page 937 views POST REPLY
HomeAircraftHelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Gyro and governor choices??
 Print TOPIC  Make Suggestion 

 7  Topic Subscribe

Sunday, June 24 - 6:01 pm - Copyright © 2000-2018 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online