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HomeAircraftHelicopterEngines Plugs Mufflers Fuel › Hobby Services stance on Hyper bearings
11-20-2006 10:35 PM  11 years agoPost 1
Zman

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Florida

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Since loosing a rear bearing on one hyper after 3 gallons and a rear bearing on another hyper after 2 gallons, I decided I would ask Bill Baxter (manager of Hobby Services) if they have made OS Japan aware of problem. His reply was pretty much a bummer and blamed it all on user error.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5015350/tm.htm

Z

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11-20-2006 11:06 PM  11 years agoPost 2
Droid

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Deep down in the Southwest- UK

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Did you expect any different?

I did a rear on a 91 szh in less than 2 gallons didn't even want to get into the post it to me, to you, to me, to you type of scenario!

Just throw the originals away and install quality bearings from new, thereafter treat them like glowplugs- expendible items!

Quotes may have been changed for my own amusement

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11-20-2006 11:13 PM  11 years agoPost 3
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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I just lost a rear bearing.... just a few gallons.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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11-20-2006 11:38 PM  11 years agoPost 4
S76 Mech

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Hatboro, Pa.

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Been through a few myself on the Hyper, even with the Ceramic/Stainless bearings. I wonder, whats everyones thoughts on the OS50 crankmod in the Hyper?

Gaui Greatness X7, X5, NX4, X3

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11-20-2006 11:43 PM  11 years agoPost 5
S76 Mech

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Hatboro, Pa.

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Bill, just curious, were they both Hypers? How many gallons so far? Thanks!

Rick

PS: Nice collection of helis you got there!

Gaui Greatness X7, X5, NX4, X3

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11-20-2006 11:59 PM  11 years agoPost 6
Zman

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Florida

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I certainly didnt expect him to admit there was a problem on the OS side of coin but I also didnt expect him to blatently blame it on the user. Really, all I wanted was to make one more voice in hopes he "privately" calls OS Japan. Maybe he actually has bought into the corrosion user abuse theory.

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11-21-2006 01:07 AM  11 years agoPost 7
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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The SX is just as bad as the Hypers on bearings. DOUG

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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11-21-2006 01:09 AM  11 years agoPost 8
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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I certainly didnt expect him to admit there was a problem on the OS side of coin but I also didnt expect him to blatently blame it on the user. Really, all I wanted was to make one more voice in hopes he "privately" calls OS Japan. Maybe he actually has bought into the corrosion user abuse theory.
I store my machines in a heated and cooled basement at about 40% humidity and easily get over 25 gallons on a set.

TM

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AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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11-21-2006 02:20 AM  11 years agoPost 9
StillTryin

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Perth, Western Australia

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This problem has been thrashed around and around for quite some time as a search will readily show. Many experienced people have pondered it at length and still the reasons remain ellusive.

The response from Hobby Services is somewhat surprising - are they suggesting that the Hyper should not be used at high revs for 3D?

I can't go past DROID's opinion on this - change the rear bearing on a regular basis. The next question is: how often

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11-21-2006 09:50 AM  11 years agoPost 10
Zman

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Florida

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As I mentioned in my reply to Baxter, I have decided it is less expensive and easier for me to just change out the bearing myself instead of shipping back and forth etc etc. I just hope I dont have to do that every two gallons. I am throwing in a ceramic this time to see if I can get a couple more gallons out of it.

Z

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11-21-2006 09:54 AM  11 years agoPost 11
Zman

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Florida

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TM,

That is impressive, just curious what fuel are you using. The reason I ask is one of the "user faults" that Baxter is referring to is using low viscosity oil fuels such as CP.

Z

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11-21-2006 01:01 PM  11 years agoPost 12
StillTryin

rrApprentice

Perth, Western Australia

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"Low viscosity oil" - this is perhaps becoming a common factor.

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11-21-2006 01:10 PM  11 years agoPost 13
hootowl

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Garnet Valley, Pa.

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Low vis oil is a required for air cooled engines.

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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11-21-2006 01:24 PM  11 years agoPost 14
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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Bearings
I have run well over 60 gallons through a 50sx and also a 70sz without replacing bearings at all. I believe this is due to a slow break in process and never chasing that last ounce of performance. When I hear the common two-three gallon mark for bearing replacement, it makes me wonder about other user's needle settings and operating rpm's.

Tyler

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11-21-2006 02:15 PM  11 years agoPost 15
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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The problem is lack of lubrication causeing the balls to micro weld to the outer race. Most of the 50 helicopters have a lousy coolong system and running the engine too hot,doing high load manuver like tic tocs will cause the engine to overheat when it wont run hot otherwise. I had bearing go out that were not due to corrosion,but due to pitting caused by microwelding. I also had a ceramic bearing go out because of overheating,which vaporizes the oil. DOUG

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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11-21-2006 02:18 PM  11 years agoPost 16
jaxrotor

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Jacksonville FL

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Could it also be the way we store our engines after use? I noticed that some people just shut their engines down and dont burn all the fuel or post oil the engine. I personally have experienced rusted bearings due to the lack post flight requirements to keep this from happening.The bearings will eventually need to be replaced due to normal wear but the service life can be extended with a little prevented maintenance.

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11-21-2006 02:48 PM  11 years agoPost 17
Tyler

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Chicagoland area

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Storage
I simply fly until my brain fatigues and take the heli home as is. This may be with fuel in the tank, an empty tank, or sometimes run the engine dry. 99% of the time, though, there is still fuel in the tank and I don't run the engine dry, don't use after run oil, and store the helis in my hot car, hot garage, cold car, cold garage, or in-house hobby room.

Having said all that, the only bearing I ever had to replace was a YS 91 rear bearing after 8 gallons of fuel. However, I was trying to run the old recipe wildcat 30% fuel with thick oil. I simply could not get a tune on the engine, and I am certain it was run hot several times.

I have run during the past 8 years:

OS 32 h
OS 32sx-h
OS 61 SF
OS 61 wc
OS 46h
OS 50sx-h
OS 70sz x2
MDS 38 x2
TT 36 x2
Webra .32
Webra 91aar
YS 91stII

The only one that ever needed a bearing was the YS, and I KNOW it was hot a time or two.

Tyler

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11-21-2006 03:03 PM  11 years agoPost 18
Zman

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Florida

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If your only getting 2-3 gallons out of your bearings there is indeed an issue but not with the bearings.

There must be some contributing factor on the side of the end user that is causing such rapid fatigue.

This is an assumption but perhaps your motors are not tuned correctly and therfore result in the failure of your bearings.

How does the rest of the motor look, ie: liner, piston etc.?
I take some exception to this. I have been flying helis since around 1997-1998. I have owned more OS 32's, OS .61swcII, YS .61's etc etc than I care to count. The only time I remember replacing a bearing is maybe after the engine finally just got plain worn out from years of use and I was doing a rebuild anyway. There has been several pictures posted of bad hyper bearings and it is clear one side is washboarding badly. For those of you that are getting 100's of gallons of fuel through your hypers, I am TRULY happy for you. But please dont take the baxter stance that this is user error. If that was the case, wouldnt we see as many threads on OS .32 bearings, OS.37 bearings. OS .91 bearings YS .91 bearings etc etc etc? Only common thread I see is Hyper bearings.
I for one subscribe to the "design flaw" thread. There has been a couple members graciously spend some of their time trying to find a cure such as the coke can mod and such, maybe they dont know how to tune either.
To answer your last question, This last bearing never saw over 170 degrees, we literally temped and backplate checked every single flight. Plug looks new, piston looks new, liner looks new and has tons of compression.

Z

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11-21-2006 03:15 PM  11 years agoPost 19
TMoore

rrMaster

Cookeville, TN

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I for one subscribe to the "design flaw" thread. There has been a couple members graciously spend some of their time trying to find a cure such as the coke can mod and such, maybe they dont know how to tune either.
To answer your last question, This last bearing never saw over 170 degrees, we literally temped and backplate checked every single flight. Plug looks new, piston looks new, liner looks new and has tons of compression.
So what would the design flaw be? OS is using the same bearing supplier as everyone else. Even replacement bearings fail in a short period as documented on RR and other forums. Based on what I'm reading the only thing that is left is the environment that you store the heli in.

Let's face it. Some folks store their helis in a dry environment and some don't. When the bearing failed, was it due to rust or did the retainer fail? did the bearing just get loose?

We need to isolate the failure modes.

TM

Delayed Response Operator Not Engaged
AMA SECTION 336 = Good
Drones = EVIL

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11-21-2006 03:21 PM  11 years agoPost 20
hootowl

rrProfessor

Garnet Valley, Pa.

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My bearing had lots of radial play in it. Enough that I could see the piston move up and down when I jiggled the output shaft.

Upon inspection it visually looks fine. Just worn out. Maybe OS is getting a special "discount" version... you know, like Home Depot or Walmart does?

Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep

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