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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › eRaptor lost to Spectrum AR-6000
10-29-2006 05:04 PM  11 years agoPost 1
cptsnoopy

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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I put this up on another forum but it should be read by anyone using a Spectrum DX-6 system. I still believe in the Spectrum system and my DX-7 is on pre-order. This is just to let folks know it can happen.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588918

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10-29-2006 05:13 PM  11 years agoPost 2
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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What is this "switching voltage regulator mod" that you mention ?

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10-29-2006 06:29 PM  11 years agoPost 3
spruce

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toledo, oh

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Car guys have been using this tech. for awhile and they still have radio problems. The spectrum system is not the end all be all.

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10-29-2006 06:35 PM  11 years agoPost 4
AlanR8

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Saddleworth near Manchester (UK)

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What IMHO it comes down to is getting the heli as glitch free as you can under normal conditions as you can. Anything else is just masking a problem.

You Spektrum experts out there, How can an RX stop "Binding" to the TX?

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10-29-2006 07:46 PM  11 years agoPost 5
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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What is this "switching voltage regulator mod" that you mention ?
It's the Dimension power regulator for the RF deck which burns less energy than the stock regulator giving longer battery life to the TX.
How can an RX stop "Binding" to the TX?
He said the light was out on the RX which sounds to me like an RX power failure of some sort - I'd like to know if the RX did still have power and was operating in failsafe mode - Were the servos still powered and holding position or could they be repositioned by hand while the RX was in this condition?

Sounds to me the RX incured some very strange and rare condition that either knocked out it's power and/or locked up it's processing - Possibly a faulty RX or just an extreme condition.

It doesn't completely suprise me that a Specktrum system incured a failure - But it's certainly rare though nothing is perfect and it still has the best track record of anything out there so far - I've never encounted any kind of glitch what so ever with mine this entire year - 3 RXs.

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10-29-2006 10:29 PM  11 years agoPost 6
cptsnoopy

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Phoenix, AZ USA

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The receiver was still powering the gyro and tail servo. My guess is that the cyclic servos were most likely holding position. When we moved the heli before unplugging the receiver battery wire the tail servo was still being driven by the gyro. So the battery power was running through the receiver but I cannot say for sure that the rest of the servos were being sent any signals other than the tx stick movement did not cause any movement of the servos until after the power was removed and re-applied. I will say that the motor shut down and the servos seemed to be at or near neutral as it fell. I imagine that the servos went to the position that I bound the receiver at. As I understand the system, if it is just a signal loss between the tx and rx the servos and motor should remain in last known position. I thought the positions that you bind the system at are for powering up the rx just in case it takes a while to connect with the tx or the tx was accidently left off.

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10-29-2006 10:56 PM  11 years agoPost 7
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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Yeah I thought the failsafe just put all the channels to the predefined positions the RX was bound to - But I dug up the manual and see that it's supposed to throttle down and maintain last command during interuption -

I found that even if I bind the RX with throttle hold enabled the failsafe will ignore that and move the throttle to a low position instead - That explains why one but not both of the ESCs on my BCP would arm while the TX is turned off - They don't seem to be equally sensitive about the throttle position while initiating.

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10-30-2006 03:46 PM  11 years agoPost 8
Adams

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Champaign Il. USA

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E Raptor- Micro or mini heli
The DX6 is specifically designed for parkflyers and micro and mini helicopters not 50 size machines. Please follow the manufactures recomedations. The new DX7 is perfect for the E Raptor as I've had nearly 200 flights on Two T-rex 600s.

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10-30-2006 04:10 PM  11 years agoPost 9
AirWolfRC

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42½ N, 83½ W

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I like this, we're told what not to do but no usable explanation other than "because we say so".

In this case, it's only a question of range and performance of the dual receivers in the DX7 is not identified. It's a "secret".

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10-30-2006 04:16 PM  11 years agoPost 10
The man

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at home

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Maybe current drain on servos has something to do with it.

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10-30-2006 04:31 PM  11 years agoPost 11
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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How would that be ? Electrically, the servos are tied through right to the battery, only the control signal comes from the receiver.

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10-30-2006 05:37 PM  11 years agoPost 12
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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AirWolfRC,
There have been rx's in the past which simply weren't designed with enough copper along the power rails (layer thickness, number of layers, trace width) to support full-size, high performance servos. For example, if a rx is designed for park flyers and the servos associated with park flyers while minimizing weight, the power bus is probably going to be smaller than a full size rx.

> In this case, it's only a question of range and performance of the
> dual receivers in the DX7 is not identified. It's a "secret".

How is it a "secret" any more than any other tx/rx combo on the market? It was designed for and proven useable for full visual range of any size model aircraft we have. How is that ANY different than a Futaba 9C used with a R149DP? Futaba, JR, etc., never specify a "range" with their systems either unless it is for park flyers only.

- John

RR rules!

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10-30-2006 05:55 PM  11 years agoPost 13
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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There have been rx's in the past which simply weren't designed with enough copper along the power rails
Do you know this to apply to the DX6 or are you just throwing out speed bumps? I asked Horizon many questions at the IHobby show and mostly got mum for an answer.
a question of range and performance of the dual receivers in the DX7 is not identified
There, also, I asked them if it was better than the DX6 and they said yes but refused to quantify the difference . . . . "secret"

As for your last comment, I'm not talking about any other company, I'm talking about Spektrum. Are you trying to say that because others hold back information, it's ok for Spektrum to do so ?

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10-30-2006 06:31 PM  11 years agoPost 14
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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> Do you know this to apply to the DX6 or are you just throwing out
> speed bumps?

Just stating information that answers your statement/question of how servo current draw could affect a receiver. I do not believe this applies to the DX6 as it has definitely been used with high performance, high power servos with no issues noted.

> Are you trying to say that because others hold back information,
> it's ok for Spektrum to do so ?

Absolutely. I'm saying they have every right to "behave" just like all the other companies. Anyone that knows anything about giving a range spec for a communications system knows that there are so many caveats and conditions to stating a number it would simply be confusing to the consumer. Until someone comes up with an industry standard range test which includes a standardized noise environment, standardized installation techniques, and a standardized test bed, comparison of ranges stated by manufacturers would be useless. Even then, they won't apply to a given real-life use in your aircraft at your field at the time you are flying.

A system is either designed for, tested for, and proven for full-range use or its not. Some systems, such as the DX6 and some of the smaller receivers, simply weren't intended for full-range use and, thus, design tradeoffs were made to accomplish other goals (obviously weight and size reduction for the small receivers and getting a SS product in users' hands for the DX6).

- John

RR rules!

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10-30-2006 06:48 PM  11 years agoPost 15
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

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Over the decades in the business, I have come to expect power and sensitivity numbers from the larger manufacturers. They have the equipment like RF ranges, faraday cages and field strength measurements to provide that kind of information. The smaller, consumer oriented manufacturers don't seem to find that desirable or necessary.

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10-30-2006 07:14 PM  11 years agoPost 16
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

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AirWolfRC,
Thank you, you just hit the ol' nail on the head. Even if they have done lab testing to take such measurements and verify/validate designs, the general R/C consumer doesn't care about any of the R/F performance numbers. They just want to know if it will work in their plane or heli.

Here's a curious thought. I bet a lot more RF specs were given back in the early days of R/C when systems were more "on the edge" of working or not.

Now, back to the topic at hand for this thread. Is not fair to say that every single receiver on the market today has failed in flight on someone, somewhere? I don't get a sense that data suggests the AR6000 receiver has any higher of a failure rate than anything else.

- John

RR rules!

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10-30-2006 07:44 PM  11 years agoPost 17
cptsnoopy

rrApprentice

Phoenix, AZ USA

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E Raptor- Micro or mini heli

The DX6 is specifically designed for parkflyers and micro and mini helicopters not 50 size machines. Please follow the manufactures recomedations. The new DX7 is perfect for the E Raptor as I've had nearly 200 flights on Two T-rex 600s.
duly noted, thank you.

I knew all about the "parkflier" limitation when I put the radio in my eRaptor and Logo10. I pondered it for some time and read many peoples accounts of using the DX-6 in larger than "parkflier" aircraft with great success. After using it in my slo-stik, little trex, alfa models corsair for several months with glitch free, freq pin free flying I gave in to temptation. I knew that it would be my responsibility and not Spectrums if anything happened. I have now stopped flying the spectrum in anything over "parkflier" utility and I don't blame Spectrum for my loss. I do feel however that it is important to let everyone know what happened. I do have a DX-7 on pre-order in hopes that I will have better luck when using it in the more expensive machines.

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10-31-2006 05:57 AM  11 years agoPost 18
drdot

rrElite Veteran

So. California, Orange County.

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fwiw..

As a professional scofflaw, I've been using the DX 6 AR 6000 well beyond its "legal" limits for some time...Full house T rex 600 with h/s high torque servos, 6v medusa bec, the works...Results so far...flawless.
I've been flying for a long time, and the only genuine radio failure I've experienced was with a top of the line JR pcm rx which failed in flight on a glider.
Any mfg. will have issues, Spektrum is no exception..The system itself is not constrained except by obvious limitations of signal shadow due to the characteristics of 2.4 Ghz transmission.
As far as I know, no one as yet has quantified the elusive range limitations everone talks about.
That said, when you bind a new DX system, be SURE you get the range specified in the manual as a signal check. We've caught two systems with bad txs this way.

John.

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10-31-2006 09:02 PM  11 years agoPost 19
Phaedrus

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S. Orange County, California

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There is nothing wrong with using the DX6 in anything you want tp put it in. The problem enters if something goes wrong.

I can hear plaintiff's attorney now...

"So you were knowingly using the radio system outside the published recommendations/limitations of the manufacturer, is that correct sir"?

That would be game, set, match in most courts.

I am involved right now in an RC model related court case and I can tell you that this can get messy in a hurry. Why take chances like this?

AMA Leader Member
Go FASST, or Go Home!!
Team Futaba

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