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HomeAircraftHelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › 140 degree conversion kit for the Fury Extreme
10-25-2006 08:46 PM  12 years agoPost 1
Ryan_

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Vermont

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http://www.miniatureaircraftusa.com...asp?prod=0217-5

Haven't seen anyone discuss this yet, any real advantage to it? Thanks

Ryan

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10-25-2006 08:49 PM  12 years agoPost 2
misio

rrVeteran

....

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There will be one for Startus as well.

Will have to wait for replys on this.

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10-26-2006 05:00 AM  12 years agoPost 3
marc8090

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Long Island, N.Y.

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Looks pretty cool. I think I would try it.

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10-27-2006 06:48 PM  12 years agoPost 4
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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It's a little tougher on a Stratus.

The Stratus ties the two pit/roll bellcrank mounts together with a common threaded spacer which goes between the two frames just aft of the mainshaft. With this spacer, little frames material is in this area for stiffness, since the spacer gives the needed rigidity. If you move the bellcranks forward as is needed for 140D eCCPM, that spacer will have to go; it'll be in the mainshaft. I'd have to look at the conversion's carbon pieces to see if they provide the needed bellcrank support in the absence of the spacer and without the extra frame material present in the Extreme frames in this area.

Ben Minor

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10-30-2006 08:09 AM  12 years agoPost 5
Xtreme*76

rrApprentice

Roma - Italy

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Dearest Dr Ben
please could you tell me if this mod
is good for my Tempest frames?
If yes please tell us the code number I think I'll try one
Thank you
Regards
Giuseppe

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10-30-2006 01:30 PM  12 years agoPost 6
THX1138

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Indianapolis, IN

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Hmmmm... Have to pay attention to this one.

Lou

Just give me five dudes and two flashbangs...

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10-30-2006 06:57 PM  12 years agoPost 7
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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As far as I know, it should work fine on a Tempest since the lower bearing block area uses the same one piece block and so forth. I don't think the Tempest uses a threaded coupler between the two bellcrank pivots, and even if it did, there's enough frame material there to maintain rigidity. When Cliff Hiatt tested the prototype pieces, all he did was redrill the frames for the bellcranks the specified distance forward and remount them. In the WORST case scenario, all you'd have to do is adjust a hole or two in the carbon doubler plates included with the kit while maintaining the same forward bellcrank shift. After that, all you do is flip the pit and roll servos around in their mounts and twist a few links on those rods.

Ben Minor-

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10-30-2006 08:16 PM  12 years agoPost 8
da_man

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Central NC

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And why is the control more accurate with less interaction? Why is this better than 120 degree ccpm.

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10-30-2006 11:50 PM  12 years agoPost 9
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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The main issues with 120D eCCPM come into play with rapid elevator inputs. Because the length of the elevator tie to the swash is a different length than the two ail/pit links, you can get into some swashplate "dancing" due to the fact the elevator servo has the same speed as the other two servos but has to travel a different distance than the pit/roll servos do for a given ele input. The 12Z and 14MZ have software in them to tweak this speed disparity for whatever you happen to use as a baseline for such rapid elevator inputs. IE, you move the stick at what you would think is the fastest you'll need to for an ele command, and then adjust the SPEED COMPENSATION until the swash pivot cleanly about its uniball. It works pretty well. For the purist, 140d eCCPM is a superior system that helps avoid control geometry interactions before you ever get into the other causes of interactions (servo mismatch, differential travel, etc).

The MA system adds a few pieces to the stock swash. I know that when Cliff Hiatt first tested it, all that was needed beyond that, at least on a Tempest, was to flip the ail and pit servos around in the tray and tweak the rod length a little bit.

NOTE to all MZ users: If you have a model trimmed out for 120D eCCPM and want to try 140D, be aware that you'll need to MANUALLY copy all the parameters over into the 140D program. When you go from 120 to 140D eCCPM configuration, the radio resits all other program data. Futaba will lilkely address this annoyance in a later software upgrade.

Ben Minor

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10-31-2006 02:27 AM  12 years agoPost 10
THX1138

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Indianapolis, IN

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Well then...
The Tempest and Stratus both have equal length push rods to the swash from the bell cranks. Why would they benefit from the 140D CCPM?

Lou

Just give me five dudes and two flashbangs...

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10-31-2006 03:07 AM  12 years agoPost 11
vitek

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Corvallis, OR

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Because the length of the elevator tie to the swash is a different length than the two ail/pit links
If you look at a 120° swashplate assembly from the side you'll see the issue. Looking from the side of the helicopter... say the distance from the center of the elevator ball to the center of the swash is A and the distance from the center of the swash to the center of the other balls is B. You'll notice that the measurement A is larger than B. This is what causes the interaction.

You can kinda see it in this image

.

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10-31-2006 10:33 AM  12 years agoPost 12
DS 8717

rrProfessor

Here wishing i was somewhere else

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The reason most of the manufactures used 120 CCPM is because the only transmitter that supported it was JR. Now that futaba supports it you will probably see more 140 heli's being offered.DOUG

YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE..IF YOU LIVE IT RIGHT THATS ALL YOU NEED

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10-31-2006 02:52 PM  12 years agoPost 13
THX1138

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Indianapolis, IN

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I get it now So when is this going to be available? How much will our models really be effected? I am sure the conversion can't cost that terribly much.

Lou

Just give me five dudes and two flashbangs...

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10-31-2006 04:18 PM  12 years agoPost 14
Raffy

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Chicago, Illinois

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That's the part I have been waiting to install in my Xcell Graphite eccpm conversion. Will place order and thanks for the info.

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11-04-2006 03:30 PM  12 years agoPost 15
Dr.Ben

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Richmond, VA, USA

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All,

There WILL be a Stratus 140D conversion in the near future. As I suspected, a different carbon side plate needs to be made to create sufficient rigidity for the pit/roll bellcranks.

Ben Minor

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11-05-2006 07:33 PM  12 years agoPost 16
blakka_1

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London/Enfield

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This looks interesting.

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11-06-2006 05:22 PM  12 years agoPost 17
blakka_1

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London/Enfield

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Can someone please give me a list of radios which support 140 degree eccpm.

Thanks.

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11-06-2006 05:38 PM  12 years agoPost 18
THX1138

rrElite Veteran

Indianapolis, IN

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10x, 9303, 14mz, and 12mz all have the 140 built in and the 9z can be progamed to work the 140CCPM

Just give me five dudes and two flashbangs...

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11-06-2006 05:56 PM  12 years agoPost 19
blakka_1

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London/Enfield

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Cheers.

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11-06-2006 06:04 PM  12 years agoPost 20
Dr.Ben

rrMaster

Richmond, VA, USA

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Any radio that supports 120 d eCCPM AND has one linear free mixer can support 140D eCCPM.

Ben Minor

Description from the Futaba website courtesy USA FAI Team Member Dwight Shilling:

In order to accommodate a 140 CCPM setup with the 9Z requires the use of one program mix. The program mix that is necessary is elevator as Master to pitch as Slave. With my Caliber it requires -35% down linear mix and -33 up linear mix. The only other change is in the SWH menu. The elevator rate will need to be increased to approximately 70 to give the same control input as the standard 120 CCPM using a rate of 50. With these changes the Futaba will fly 140 CCPM perfectly. That is the setup I flew at the NATS with the Caliber. Using the 140 CCPM gives a more precise feel to the elevator inputs but does not change the collective or aileron feel.

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HomeAircraftHelicopterMiniature Aircraft Whiplash & Fury 55 › 140 degree conversion kit for the Fury Extreme
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