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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › My 401 is driving me nuts!! please help!!
10-24-2006 02:54 AM  12 years agoPost 1
monterey_tip

rrVeteran

Monterey, Ca - USA

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I have 2 401's. One on a Logo 10 and the other on a Logo 20. I am using the Futaba 7chp radio. I have searched and read on the 401, but still can't figure it out.

On my Logo 10, when the radio is on GY mode, the led flashes slowly. When I switch it to STD mode, it goes solid....isn't this the reverse of how it should be? I also get a slight drift to the left on GY (heading hold), but not on the STD. From reading the forums, I believe this is from the linkage mechanical length, right?

It also tail wags much more in std mode, but doesn't drift.

Any ideas?

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10-24-2006 03:50 AM  12 years agoPost 2
chase

rrApprentice

Oklahoma city

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10-24-2006 04:03 AM  12 years agoPost 3
monterey_tip

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Monterey, Ca - USA

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I think I figured it out. I didn't have it in the "A" percentage menu, it was in the "N" percentage menu.

I'll try it tomorrow..too dark now.

Thanks for the link.

Tip

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10-24-2006 04:04 AM  12 years agoPost 4
dkshema

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Cedar Rapids, IA

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The 401 MUST be started up in AVCS/Heading Hold Mode. The red LED will come on solid and stay on when you are in AVCS mode. If the red LED doesn't come on and stay on when you first turn on the radio, you are not starting it up in AVCS/Heading Hold Mode.

If the channnel you are using to control the gyro mode is "backwards" from what you want it to be, reverse THAT channel in your TX. This will make the switch position make sense to you.

If the gyro is initialized properly in AVCS/Heading Hold mode, the red LED will come on and stay on. If the red LED starts flashing slowly when you switch flight modes (going from Normal to Idle Up 1...or any other flight mode), the rudder trim position in the newly selected flight mode is different than it was in the flight mode that you initialized the gyro in. Make sure that when you switch between different flight modes that your rudder trim is identical in each flight mode. If the gyro is blinking when you try to fly, you will get slow drifting of the nose.

Once you've initialized the gyro in AVCS/Heading Hold mode, NEVER, NEVER , NEVER touch the rudder trim tab.

When you switch to "normal mode" (instead of AVCS/Heading Hold mode), the red LED will go out. It will come back on when you return to AVCS/HH mode.

If you are using the landing gear channel to control the gyro, you'll probably find that you have two end-point or travel adjustments in your TX. If you were to plug a servo into the landing gear channel (channel 5) and put both gear end-point settings to zero, you'd find the servo would sit at neutral and not move when you flip the switch. Adjust ONE of those endpoints toward 100%, you'll find the servo moves from neutral to one endpoint, but won't move the other direction.

Now, adjust the other endpoint from 0 to its 100% position, you'll find that the servo now moves both directions.

One of those endpoint settings will control the gyro gain for AVCS/HH mode. The other endpoint setting will control the gyro gain for normal or rate mode. Which one controls which mode is dependent upon the setting of the GEAR channel reversing switch in the transmitter.

When you figure out WHICH endpoint control is the one that controls the AVCS/HH mode, a setting between 10% and 90% will correspond to a gyro gain of zero and 100% (10% endpoint = 0 gain, 90% endpoint = 100% gain, 45% endpoint = 50% gain, all AVCS/HH mode). Red LED will be on solid in this mode.

The normal mode (rate mode) of the gyro will be controlled when the switch is in the opposite position. Again, 10% of that endpoint setting is 0% gain, 90% on that endpoint will be 100% gain, 45% endpoint will be 50% gain, all normal (rate) mode. The red LED will be off.

Settings of the endpoints in either position between 0 and 10% are not recognized by the gyro. Settings beyond 90% on the channel output are not recognized by the gyro.

If you have a gyro control channel whose value is simply set between 0 and 100%, settings between 50% and 100% will give you AVCS/HH mode (and the solid red LED). 50% on the channel is zero gain, 100% on the channel is 100% gain, 75% setting of the channel is 50% gain. All AVCS mode, red LED ON solid.

Normal (rate) mode is selected when the channel setting is 0% to 50%. 0% on the channel is 100% gain, 25% on the channel output is 50% gain, 50 percent on the channel output is 0% gain, all in normal or rate mode.

Set your helicopter tail rotor pushrod and linkages up as the instruction manual tells you to. This should be a good initial mechanical setup. Start the gyro up in AVCS/HH mode and let it finish initializing (about 3 seconds) before moving anything. Use the gyro control to then select NORMAL/RATE mode. Start the helicopter, bring it to a hover. Adjust the MECHANICAL linkage on the TR until the heli will hover without its nose turning left or right.

Once you've got the mechanical setup correct, and have hovered the machine in NORMAL mode and fine-tuned the linkage to achieve a stable hover without the nose turning, you can go back to heading hold mode and have a ball flying.

Make sure any REVolution mixing, or ACCeleration mixing in your transmitter is disabled when the gyro is in AVCS/Heading Hold mode. Never use the rudder trim tab when the gyro is in AVCS/HH mode.

Also, while you're at it, make sure the rudder travel adjust on the gyro is setup so that you have NO MECHANICAL BINDING at either left or right endpoint.

If you're using non-digital servo on the tail, the DS switch must be OFF, or you'll roast your servo. Set the DS switch ON if using a high-speed digital servo. Set the DELAY adjustment to ZERO.

If you're using a non-digital servo, hover the heli, romp on tail rotor (do a pirouette) and let go of the stick. If the tail overshoots or undershoots its final position, adjust the DELAY pot until the tail returns to where it should be and doesn't over or undershoot the final position.

Last, the RUDDER END POINT adjustment in your transmitter adjusts the pirouette RATE with this gyro -- NOT the total travel of the rudder command (that's what the travel limit pot does). If you max out the rudder EPA, your heli will probably pirouette extremely fast (four or five revolutions -- or more -- per second). If the piro rate is too fast, then back off on the rudder channel endpoints.

If the rudder is too touchy around neutral, then put some expo in the rudder channel to flatten the control response around neutral.

You might need to read this a few times to understand your 401 and its operation. It's actually pretty simple if you understand what the gyro expects to see from your transmitter.

Dave

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10-24-2006 03:27 PM  12 years agoPost 5
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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If you are using the 7C (or 9c) gyro screen the value displayed is the actual gain.

A infront of the number equals AVCS mode N equals Rate mode.

You want your channel 5 end points to 100/100

Set up like this

MIX = ACT
MODE=GY
Rate up = A 50
Rate dn = N 50
Switch = whatever switch you are using for your gyro

Init the gyro and watch the light, if it comes on solid your there. If it slow flashes, flip the gyro switch you assigned and reinit the gyro, it should now come on solid. If you dont like the direction of the switch just reduce the A50 towards zero, it will change to N then set it to N50, do the same with the N, turn it to A50 and that will reverse the function of the switch you are using.

Thats half the available gain and that should be enough to hold and not so much as to wag if your tail is mechanically setup right.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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10-24-2006 04:02 PM  12 years agoPost 6
Dr Lodge

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Guildford, Surrey - UK

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If you are using the 7C (or 9c) gyro screen the value displayed is the actual gain.
Do you know if this applies to the 12MZ and 14MZ too?

Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200

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10-24-2006 04:09 PM  12 years agoPost 7
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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I've only messed with the 12 and at that just a bit, but Futaba seems consistent in that regard so probably.

All they really did with the gyro screen function was take the 50 to 100 percent throw concept and display it differently so that what you see is what you get instead of saying, well 75 percent throw = 50 percent gain etc.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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10-24-2006 04:10 PM  12 years agoPost 8
Dr Lodge

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Guildford, Surrey - UK

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I'm finding I need to set the ATVs to 84 in order to acheive +- 100 values via the monitor menu.

Vibe 90, Vibe 50, Vigor CS x2,
Dyna-x, Knight 503D, Logo 10,
TRex 500, Furion, Gaui EP200

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10-24-2006 07:06 PM  12 years agoPost 9
Zaneman007

rrElite Veteran

Texas - USA

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monterey_tip,

I have the 7CHP, and the so call Manual. When I go to the Gyro menu and select STD, I am in heading hold, and when I select GY, I am in non-heading hold. Also, switching back and forth will delete the gain settings in heading hold (STD). The problem is the manual like this forum keeps referring to AVCS. Like you, nothing in my radio menu says AVCS?

Do the mechanical set up in GY mode. Then switch to STD and set the gain.

I love the part in the 7CHP manual that states Quote "This is hard to explain." Unquote. You will find that useless piece of writing in the section attempting to tell you how to set up a CCPM swashplate.

If any FUTABA reps are reading this, hire some one who speaks English to write the manual. In its current state it is basically a bad interpretation.

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10-24-2006 07:19 PM  12 years agoPost 10
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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At no point using a 7C on a 401 do you need to set the mode type to STD to set the gain.

Sorry to be direct but disregard the above post as misinformed advice.

Well the point about the manual being horrible is a valid one. Ann Marie Cross has a great book out now on the 7C published by Traplet thats worth its weight in gold.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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10-25-2006 02:40 AM  12 years agoPost 11
Zaneman007

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Texas - USA

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At no point using a 7C on a 401 do you need to set the mode type to STD to set the gain.

Sorry to be direct but disregard the above post as misinformed advice.
BarracudaHockey,

Please explain yourself. I am telling you how this radio works. I have four helis on my 7CHP. I have set the gain in STD mode. STD on the 7CHP is heading hold, period. GY is non-heading hold. If you switch from GY to STD the values will go to zero.

So tell me how you do it on your 7CHP?

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10-25-2006 03:24 PM  12 years agoPost 12
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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STD is for standard or non GY series gyros.

GY is for Futaba GY series gyros.

To set the gain in heading hold, in GY mode turn the wheel until
Rate x (up or down, this only determines switch position) says A xx, xx being the gain you select between 1 and 100. A=avcs mode, aka heading hold.

Nxx = normal mode and the gain number

If it says N 50 for example, turn the wheel till the number decreases, at 0 it will switch over to A and start counting up, thats heading hold mode.

If you still don't understand I'd be glad to pm you my phone number and I can walk you through the proper setup on the phone.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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10-25-2006 04:04 PM  12 years agoPost 13
monterey_tip

rrVeteran

Monterey, Ca - USA

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That was exactly the problem I was having. I didn't realize there were two sets of numbers on the dial. Thanks for the help. My heading hold is working great now. Now I am just fine tuning the tail wag. I am using a 9650 digital servo on the Logo 10. I have it switched on DS...should there be any delay, or should it be on 0 for the digital servo?

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10-25-2006 04:19 PM  12 years agoPost 14
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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0 delay for that servo

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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10-25-2006 05:56 PM  12 years agoPost 15
Zaneman007

rrElite Veteran

Texas - USA

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I'll take a look at the radio again. I have both the Futaba 401 and the JR 500GT. Both are set on STD with the gain set in STD to get the heading hold to work, and the heading hold works. Is GY for Futaba gyros only?

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10-25-2006 06:30 PM  12 years agoPost 16
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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GY will work with the 500T, its the same principal, mid point on the pulse (1.5ms) is off, any lower is rate mode, any higher is heading hold, the lower or higher you go the more gain you get.

STD and GY mode is really a misnomer, it doesnt change whats going to the gyro, hell you could set that on a knob if you wanted, it changes the way the numbers are displayed.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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10-25-2006 06:39 PM  12 years agoPost 17
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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Let me say this, I wasn't disputing that you got it to work the way you were doing it. I was saying the blanket statement you made, that STD mode is the only way to get into heading hold is incorrect. There's more than one way to accomplish something but you are making more work for yourself the way you are doing it.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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10-26-2006 03:59 AM  12 years agoPost 18
Zaneman007

rrElite Veteran

Texas - USA

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BarracudaHockey,

I have to thank you, and I stand corrected on my earlier post. I have all of my Gyros in STD. I didn't know that there were two sets of numbers, either. N XX and A XX. I turned on the radio and got it to switch from N to A. Wow, what a crappy manual. You don't know how many times I read that section.

So let me get this straight. I should set up the gyro mechanically in STD, then switch to GY mode, and set the gain using A XX.

Thanks

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10-26-2006 04:45 AM  12 years agoPost 19
monterey_tip

rrVeteran

Monterey, Ca - USA

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That's the way I did it. I couldn't figure it out by the manual either. It doesn't explain that you need to toggle up the dial to "A", but it does show an "A" in the picture....very subtle. That's why the forums are awesome...Thanks Barracuda...a little information goes a long way.

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10-26-2006 01:31 PM  12 years agoPost 20
BarracudaHockey

rrMaster

Jacksonville FL

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Set up the gains as I showed in GY mode.

Once you get your gain set, init the gyro with the switch in heading hold mode, toggle to rate (normal) mode and set up your gyro mechanically. Once you get the linkage set for no drift in rate mode in a hover double check your limit so you arent binding the servo, turn the reciever off and on, let the gyro init in heading hold mode and go fly.

Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com

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HomeRC & PowerAircraftHelicopterRadio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt › My 401 is driving me nuts!! please help!!
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