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11-27-2006 03:57 PM  12 years ago
Razmo

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Chicago

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Mike,

I have more experience than you understand. I understand vertical, orthogonal set up etc. I also understand that my Berg 7p IS showing me a lost of signal when the stick is moving faster than the Tx can handle. I also understand this likely isn't the problem.

Cap has a good point and it has allowed me to understand that my 9CHP IS slower than other radios and I'm glad that I've been made aware of this. He understands that latency may or may not be a problem.

I'm willing to bet my paycheck that you would be tinkering with my current setup longer than you guess. Given I'm using a set of mounts that are somewhat "beta" as well as having to visually center ALL my servos with subtrim, it can be frustrating.

Raz
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11-27-2006 04:41 PM  12 years ago
MJWS

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Airdrie, AB - Canada

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Heh. Sorry Razmo. Wasn't my intent to comment at all on your experience level. The venerable H2 can be frustrating for even the best.

Borrowing a different radio is certainly a reasonable response. As is swapping out the servos, linkages, and DSP reciever. I'm not sure your berg is showing you what you think it is. Maybe its DSP is introducing lag? Maybe they don't update that LED that quickly... I don't have one in front of me. Perhaps there is a signal loss, but even if it was speed on the 9C all frames get sent they just get there slower.

You need to find a little context for JKos's thread. Speed and latency need to be put into the context of servo response times and transit times. On an average or even a very hard flight, it doesn't really come into play.

If this only happens when you stab cyclic, and it's a speed thing we all have it. The stock H2 is pretty forgiving and sloppy when it comes to CCPM. It doesn't need a 14MZ or Stylus to work right.

Good Luck.

Mike
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11-27-2006 05:04 PM  12 years ago
Razmo

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Chicago

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No problemo, I respect the reply and the help!

I am also a little skeptic as to what is actually happening when my 7P flashes it's LED but I'm nearly certain I recall reading this equals a loss of signal. I suppose I could just pull the crystal out while transmitting to see.

I suppose I can relate the loss of signal to stick travel because letting the stick spring back to center on it's own is faster than I can simulate a fast moving stick. This leads me to beleive that the Rx is trying to read this stick travel but the Tx is moving too slow?? Just a guess

Raz
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11-27-2006 05:07 PM  12 years ago
Micro-Maniac

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Pasco,Washington Formerly: Captain Chaos

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If his is Hornet is Duzi'd out like mine then it's no longer sloppy and forgiving of anything - My H2 is a devil of a snappy responding heli seemingly created from pure agility itself - If there's slop anywhere between the servos and blade grips on mine then I can't detect it - It's that tight - I'm suprised every time I fly it after flying my other heli at just how agile it is and always say I'm gonna crank up the expos more on it - So I don't doubt that if something is misbehaving even a little bit that it'll show up in flight - Lesser effects of such things as latency are not so lesser on a Duzi'd Hornet but more like magnified IMO.

-

BTW - JKos' testings started because of witnessing visual effects of latency - He seen it happening - He felt it happening in flight - He investigated it - It's not somethings that's just a blip on test equipment screen - If one channel is lagging by 2 frames it's going to hold a roll with collective the entire range of travel and fall farther behind the faster the travel until the travel stops and it can catch up - JKos was going to posts videos of the behavior but decided to go with charts and graphs instead - I witnessed it myself with my DX6 on my BCP which is pretty sloppy and likely masks the effects some during flight - My H2 has been shelfed most of this year so I haven't had much chance to notice misbehaviors with it.

-

Frames are exchanged at a fixed rate - Imagine frames as an escalator between the TX and RX where each step is labeled to carry the values of two specific channels (1&2,3&4,5&6,7&8,9&10) - Whatever pulse value each channel is producing at the moment it's specific step/frame comes around to pick it up then that's the pulse value carried to the rx -

With fast commands channels 1&2 can have very different values from channel 6 when it's frame finally comes around to pick it up - The channels 1&2 frame would pick up a lower value than that of channel 6 when it's frame comes around to pick it up two frames later - So in this group of frames the RX receives lower channels 1&2 values and a higher channel 6 value causing the channel 6 servo to lead the channels 1&2 servos by a bit - The faster you give commands the greater pulse width differences between channels 1&2 and 6 will be carried to the RX - (At least this is how I perceive it and could be wrong)

-

(I realize this is just one little scenario which may or may not be the culprit - But I don't like feeling that I seem to keep being called a liar about the possibility - If it turns out I'm wrong then oh well - I didn't advise to go out and buy another radio - I advised to simply test it with another radio - And If comparison leads to choosing new equipment then that's just upgrading to better technology)
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11-27-2006 05:22 PM  12 years ago
Razmo

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Chicago

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By the way, I suppose I can relate the loss of signal to stick travel because letting the stick spring back to center on it's own is faster than I can simulate a fast moving stick. This leads me to beleive that the Rx is trying to read this stick travel but the Tx is moving too slow?? Just my guess....

Raz
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11-28-2006 05:07 PM  12 years ago
Razmo

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Chicago

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I thought I should report a few things here to ease any confusion.

While having a fully charged Tx, I tried simulating the LED flash again. It reports no signal loss. I could easily allow the right stick to spring back into it's center location without any interruption.

Also, after having another look at my s3110's, I was wrong about being unable equalize all subtrim adjustments for center. I found that the s3110 has a protruding nob that sits right in line with the center of the servo pivot. I then used one of the brass couplings that came with the MS kit and fitted it in one of the holes on the servo arm. Therefore, I was able to line this up with the protruding nob and what do you know, the subtrims all came out to +/- 20

I think the mistake I was making, was trying to center the servo arm from a birds eye view.

Raz
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12-05-2006 09:51 AM  12 years ago
DarkHorse1

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Gloucester UK

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Razmo, Are you still using the TE480 GF blades?
260 mm Glass Fibre grey blades, ~11g each and they are very skinny 20 mm cord width and more flexible under load, designed for multi 3 blade usage.

A fellow flyer is have trouble with those blades, collective punch outs displaying delayed low performance lift in a 2 blade X-3D setup.
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12-05-2006 04:35 PM  12 years ago
Razmo

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Chicago

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No. Actually, I haven't finished that X3D kit yet. I've accumulated a complete Duzi set which I plan to use all up to the KoK blades. I am glad you mentioned it though. I was a little skeptical using those blades on the X3D.

On my existing X3D, I am still currently experimenting with E489 (MS weighted blades).

By the way, I still cannot maintain a rock solid E073. Everything is orthogonal so I can only narrow it down to poor Tx performance or it's impossible to maintain a rock solid E073 with the Hornet swash? I did just pick up the new DX7 so I'll give this a try as well.

Raz
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