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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterAerial Photography and Video › New set up, what to choose?
10-23-2006 07:19 PM  12 years ago
kaptkaos

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Miami FL

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No, I have not built or set one up personally. I do have people that I respect their opinions and knowledge that have, I have also seen one up close and personal.

As I stated its a GREAT MACHINE and GREAT SUPPORT, just more complex and difficult to learn to use as a beginner. I would hope you would not have grief over those remarks....
If you give a Chimp a gun, and the Chimp shoots, DONT BLAME THE CHIMP!!!!
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10-23-2006 09:33 PM  12 years ago
Chris Bergen

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cassopolis, MI USA

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Not at all KK, as I said just curious.

Here's a quote you may be familiar with
And those reasons you just gave are not personal opinions????

I have run both, have you? Until you have please dont comment unless its based upon factual experience.
From this thread, http://runryder.com/t189002p1/
Chris D. Bergen
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10-23-2006 09:41 PM  12 years ago
kaptkaos

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Miami FL

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Man, thats a reach! Way out of context.

Bottom line, nobody bashed your machines, in fact the Bergen got praised as the 2nd choice if budget allows and we gave the man the options he asked for.

Im moving on, no need to hash this out anymore. Hope you realize i was not bashing the Bergens. In fact I may own one one of these days.
If you give a Chimp a gun, and the Chimp shoots, DONT BLAME THE CHIMP!!!!
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10-23-2006 10:02 PM  12 years ago
flyboy

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North America

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As someone that has personally owned an Observer and is curently flying three twins as well as personally owning a GSR. I imagine the comment was based more around the fact that the Bergens are wonderful machines and the support and service are equally as stellar, however these machines need some fine tuning and a fair bit of adjusting to get them running "just right."

I am sure that you and Larry remember spending (an extra)four or five months "getting my observer working just right" (I had them assemble it for me, as I wanted it "just right" and at the time was very new to the machine) I believe that you guys were having trouble dialing in the perfect headspeed if my memory is correct?............You might remember me, I am the one that bought you and Larry a Tachometer after the build.

I loved my Observer and have noting but great things to say about the machine and the support that I recieved along with the purchase, but I will admit, it took even you guys a "while" to get it running "just right".

I too spent a fair bit of time on the GSR but it was considerably easier to get "Dialed in" out of the box.

I will repeat, I have owned everything that I mentioned above and all of this is my own first person experience.

My observer took amazing still photos, and other than being slightly underpowered I loved it. I am however, using the GRS for long duration video work. The twins are literally work horses used for heavy lifting applications.

This is nothing more than my own personal experience.

Flyboy
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10-23-2006 11:12 PM  12 years ago
FLAP

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Michigan

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I have had Schuluters, Xcells and a Bergen. I didn't find any of the three any more difficult than the other to setup. Same principles apply accross each type. I'm sure the same goes for GSR. Only learning curve I had to deal with was going from nitro to gas and that would have been the same issue regardless of manufacturer. Bottom line, lots of good choices.
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10-24-2006 04:02 AM  12 years ago
Chris Bergen

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cassopolis, MI USA

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KK, You're right, that was a reach. But correct. Until you have personal experience, as Flyboy has, then you don't have an accurate opinion on how hard or easy a certain heli is to setup or fly. I would, by the way, appreciate your opinion on it, if and when you do build one. I do understand, no bashing intended.

Travis, good to hear that you're still using and flying our machines. I was led to believe you had sent them on to someone else.....I do still have your tach with your initials carved into the back!! And did still use it until we obtained a new rechargeable one this past summer.

Guys, I'm not here to debate whether or not my machines are easier or harder or whatever. Different abilities, different backgrounds lead to different results. I do get concerned when someone with no personal experience with our machines makes a blanket statement like that. I would also agree that a push pull system such as ours does indeed require more care in setup, but that does not make it more difficult for a beginner.

My apologies for the hijack. Noel has posted some excellent info that, if you happened to glance over it looking for something more juicy, you might want to go back and read more in depth. There are guys in the US that may cross borders in their business of AP, and may want to know the regs that apply up there.

AP business in Canada has been BOOMING this year. Whether that's the cause of the increased awareness from Transport Canada is unclear at this point, but the fact is, the regs are in place and may be a signal to those in the US who don't want to believe that it's coming here.
Chris D. Bergen
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10-24-2006 07:36 AM  12 years ago
fitenfyr

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Port Orchard, Washington

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Non ccpm heli's are out then do you want to fly one with and R/C car engine with a 60 day warranty?
I love the "car engine" in my Benzin Trainer.
Right now there is a great deal on them also at Vario USA.

Without a doubt the smoothest gas engine I have ever seen.

I have direct experience with a Bergen, Predator, and Spectra in addtion to the BT and by far hands down the BT has been the best ship for me.
Jason Stiffey
Fly Fast....Live Slow...
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10-24-2006 01:34 PM  12 years ago
Rotary R/C

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Sudbury, ON Canada

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Chris Bergen

AP business in Canada has been BOOMING this year. Whether that's the cause of the increased awareness from Transport Canada is unclear at this point, but the fact is, the regs are in place and may be a signal to those in the US who don't want to believe that it's coming here.
This is where (as with anything)the industry has to be vigilant in making sure it takes care of how the APers operate. As long as the FAA has no reason to step in and intervene with the way guys operate, the U.S. should be fine for a number of years without the worry of big brother. P!ss in there cornflakes though and that will deffinately speed up the process

I have not seen any evidence yet that UAV (what Transport Canada classifies R/C AP Helis under)or their operators need to be fully certified pilots. There is a slew of guidelines stating what to look for in a UAV and operator when hiring (or being) the two and what type of safety procedures to follow, but it only takes two seconds to change the guidelines into regulations.


Noel,

If you have more exact information or know where to look for more exact information in regards to the regulations, I would greatly appreciate it if you could guide me in the right direction. I'm worried that maybe the info may be a bit dated (2005) that I was able to find. So far as I stated before I was not able to find any info stating that the UAV or pilot needed to certified at this point. There diffinately seems to be guidelines from TC than the FAA has on the US guys though


Marc
Love my life, love my wife but my heli is my mistress! :D
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10-24-2006 01:53 PM  12 years ago
phover

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Joliette, QC, Canada

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Hi Marc,

I'm actually in the process of being certified by Transport Canada.

Here a link of interest:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/g...ed/section1.htm

And here is where they say that we must follow the regulation (extract from the previous link):

... Also available on the market are small-scale models of full size UAVs. The aircraft are advertised as aerial platforms to be used for aerial surveillance by adding a wireless video system or digital still camera. Equipping the model aircraft with this payload does not, in itself, make the model a UAV, however, once the model aircraft is launched as part of one’s employment or for monetary gain or other form of hire and reward, it is considered an unmanned air vehicle and is subject to UAV regulations. ...

If you want to be certified, I'll suggest you to call Transport Canada and explain them what you want to do. They are very helpful and they will help you in this process.

A+
Martin
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10-24-2006 02:31 PM  12 years ago
Rotary R/C

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Sudbury, ON Canada

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Phover


Thank you Martin,

That's what I was looking for! That gives a more clear idea of what is involved.

If I strap my cat to the bottom of my heli, does that make it a passenger carrying UAV? Just kidding.

I was having a hard time finding any info, but things are starting to progress now


Thanks,
Marc
Love my life, love my wife but my heli is my mistress! :D
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10-24-2006 05:30 PM  12 years ago
Zinger

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Edmonton Alberta Canada

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Hello Marc,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I see that Martin got you a good link. From my understanding Transport Canada deals with every application on an individual bases, they've approved my application paticulars and the equipment I've submitted for approval. I submit a new app for every job. your app criteria will be different and delt with individually. An SFOC isn't issued like a drivers licence, it's a certificate issued for a spesific date, time and location. If you actually call and talk with them, they'll explane the regs to you and walk you through it. They are great to work with.

Hope this helps,

Noel Zinger, mpa
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10-24-2006 06:47 PM  12 years ago
Rotary R/C

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Sudbury, ON Canada

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Noel,

No problem. I figured you were busy.

If you have to fill a SFOC for every job you do, what happens if you have three or four jobs in one day at different sights (I mean the little lower priced jobs, like quick realestate shoots)? I would imagine the foot work needed would cut in to profits very fast!


Marc
Love my life, love my wife but my heli is my mistress! :D
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10-24-2006 11:52 PM  12 years ago
AceBird

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Utica, NY USA

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just more complex and difficult to learn to use as a beginner.
A beginner has a better understanding on what is difficult. I don't see a thing wrong with your assessment. Flying has no relevance to building. You could be a great pilot and a poor mechanic and vice versa. One has nothing to do with the other.
Ace
What could be more fun?
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10-25-2006 01:17 AM  12 years ago
Rotary R/C

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Sudbury, ON Canada

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Ok, halfway through http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/g...ed/section2.htm CAR Subsection 101.01(1), need a break because my wee liitle brain has had enough reading for now

There's so much to take in, I guess this whole endeavour will show me if I have what it takes to become a Canadian APer It's nice to know there's people out there willing to give others advice and suggestions. Hopefully I can keep myself on the correct heading.


Thanks,
Marc
Love my life, love my wife but my heli is my mistress! :D
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