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09-11-2006 12:51 AM  14 years ago
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BigDuke60

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Tustin, California, United States

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Shogun V2 Tail Problem
I need some help here...

I am having 2 problems with the tail on my new V2 that I believe are related. First, the tail wags pretty bad. I have done quite a bit of research on this and can't figure it out exactly. I am using a 401 with a new digital Airtronics 94761 servo mounted on the boom. I have tried the following:

All sorts of delay settings
Digital mode and non-digital
High gain in HH and low gain
Non-HH mode

Non of these things make a difference. Now for the second problem...
After a few seconds of watching this wagging go on, I spool down only to find that the belt is now slack (tight when I start) because the gear case has been pulled toward the fuselage even though the case screws are really tightened down. To top this all off, whatever phenom is causing this, I think my main shaft may now be bent because there is now a distinct wobble at the lower RPM's that didn't seem to be there before.

Any help?
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09-11-2006 01:44 AM  14 years ago
darkside212

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Milwaukee, WI USA

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Try wrapping a piece of scotch tape around the tail boom and then slide the TR gear case over it...this should help out with it slipping...


You might want to try a boom mounted tail servo mount with a CF pushrod...I've seen a few posts about this and the difference is Night and Day.


hope this helps
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09-11-2006 05:24 AM  14 years ago
BigDuke60

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Tustin, California, United States

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Yeah, I saw more than a few posts about the p/r. I will definately swap that out. For now though, I definately have a bent main shaft. I have no idea how that happened since I have only hovered the Shogun for a few seconds with no crashing.
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09-11-2006 07:41 AM  14 years ago
Rob_T

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You wouldn't be the first person to have received a "pre bent" main shaft direct from the factory! Vibration from a bent main shaft can cause problems with the gyro, leading to wag.

3mm CF tube makes a much better pushrod than the stock one.

I eventually used thick CA to hold the tail box in place. I made a fillet on the boom that stop the tail box from sliding but didn;t actually glue the tail box to the boom so I can still remove it when I need to.
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09-11-2006 01:34 PM  14 years ago
darkside212

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Milwaukee, WI USA

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Also: the stock main shafts are AL...which is pretty weak. I would suggest the hardened steel shaft
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09-11-2006 05:18 PM  14 years ago
Rob_T

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A v2 is supposed to come with the steel shaft as standard. The aluminum ones are incredibly soft so if you do need to replace the shaft make sure to get a steel one (like darkside said).
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09-12-2006 04:27 AM  14 years ago
BigDuke60

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Sounds like good advice. I'm going to try all of these. Thanks for the support guys.
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09-15-2006 06:06 AM  14 years ago
cretes

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san pedro

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Failed tail grip bearing!!!
Today I hovered the shogun V2 Belt driven very nice indeed.
Stock motor I was able to hover good and did some forward flight.
Everything was going great when I landed I was on grass and it
tilted over sh#@!!.When I took it back up I noticed the tail was not
acting right.After taking the tail blades ang grips off,I noticed
one of the bearings had broke in two.So I hope the tail issue
is just that bearing.
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09-15-2006 08:15 AM  14 years ago
borneobear

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Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

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I had the V2 tail set, as you reported, the tail wag was horrible, while at full trottle the vibration from the tail case shook my heli to bits. I gave up after only a few flights. I changed to the micro heli Pro tail and I've been happy for nearly a year.
Sometimes its easier to admit you've been gutted and move on - painful as it is.

About the main shaft, the gawd awful truth is Walkera's #36 main shaft is a gem. Its made of hardened steel and won't bend easily. The shogun main shaft, and helidirect 'hardened' main shaft all bend too easily. A hard landing after hovering CAN bend them. Lastly don't go for the Microheli's titanium shaft as they too bend like a steel shaft.

That said, did you check your feathering shaft? The shogun V2 feathering shaft is extremely long, making them prone to bending. This can also be the reason for your head's wobble. I have changed to the Align Trex shaft with some minor mod (extension).

Good luck.
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09-15-2006 01:36 PM  14 years ago
darkside212

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Milwaukee, WI USA

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What "mods" did you do to swap to the align feathering shaft...change out some bearings?
Please let us know
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09-16-2006 10:26 PM  14 years ago
BigDuke60

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Tustin, California, United States

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Here's an update:

1. Created a great new t/r pushrod from CF 3mm tube stock. It's way stiffer than the original. Seemed to help, but not a whole lot.

2. Changed out the main shaft only to find that it wasn't bent at all! When I got it back together, I noticed that there was about a 16th of an inch discrepancy between the flybar paddles' distance from center of head. I corrected this, and now I have very little vibration. The tail still wags like crazy though. I had the 401 mounted right to the frame right above where the boom slides into it. My craftsmanship must have been off, as the gyro fell off of that mount today ending my testing. I just ordered the CF boom mount for the gyro and will use that. The only other thing I can think of is that the gyro is mounted too close to the engine. I read that it was more important to have the gyro far from the ESC than a brushless motor. So it is almost 4" from my control and right above my motor.

Getting pretty frustrated with this...
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09-16-2006 10:28 PM  14 years ago
BigDuke60

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Tustin, California, United States

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borneobear,

Can you give me a part number for that tail case?

Tnx.
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09-16-2006 10:45 PM  14 years ago
crusader4x

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Redlands, CA - USA

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fgauss123,

From where did you order the CF gyro boom mount?
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09-17-2006 02:15 AM  14 years ago
BigDuke60

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Tustin, California, United States

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crusader4x,

I ordered the mount from http://www.GrandRC.com. It is actually an EF Helicopters (maker of the Shogun) upgrade part and I have seen it in more than one place. As a matter of fact, I am so bent on getting this bird in the air that I am going to search the 2 or so HobbyPeople stores in my area for it tomorrow when they open.
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09-18-2006 12:32 AM  14 years ago
cretes

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san pedro

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cnc tail gear case
anybody heard anything about this -

Cyclone/Shogun Tail
[CTR] $60.00

This CNC tail is for the Cyclone,Shogun,Walkera 36, and other similar helis that utilize a belt driven system
High quality CNC aluminum
3D performance!


might have to purchase.
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09-18-2006 01:58 AM  14 years ago
borneobear

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Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

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Cretes, thats the tail unit that I bought and had to abandon. My advise is to stay away from it. I lost a hundred dollars and 3 weeks of waiting for nothing.

The feathering shaft mod is pretty easy - just an extension of the Trex feathering shaft by cutting an old shaft and fixing it on to the new shaft using longer bolts on both ends. This will extend the 45 mm Trex shaft to 50 mm as required by the CNC shongun head. No bearing change is needed. (I will post pics when I can find it :rolleyes

The Microheli Pro tail is also for the Trex. It is smooth as silk in both looks and operation. But you'd need to change your tail boom from the shogun to the Trex boom - mods to the mounting bracket would be required.
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09-18-2006 04:45 AM  14 years ago
Isaac F

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Panama Republic of Panama

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Cretes, thats the tail unit that I bought and had to abandon. My advise is to stay away from it. I lost a hundred dollars and 3 weeks of waiting for nothing.
Hey borneobear, can you be more specific about the problem you experienced with that tail unit.

THX,

Isaac
Speed of light is greater than speed of sound. Some people seem very bright until U hear them speak
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09-18-2006 06:23 AM  14 years ago
cretes

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san pedro

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hey borneobear thanks for the tip.but it just looks sooo pretty.
I really want it look at all that metal and the belt tensioner.Its got
to be better than the stock set up.I know my bird hovers and flies great stock so now I can tinker a bit with it.If I put that case
on it and it heads south I will know for sure if it is garbage
and have to return it period.These upgrades are to enhance your
setup not make it worse.I will give it a week then decide what to
do based on the feedback
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

NOW THIS IS FOR BIRDS THAT ALREADY HOVER AND FLY GOOD
BEFORE THE UPGRADE!!!

Good (0)


Garbage (1)

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09-18-2006 08:00 AM  14 years ago
Rob_T

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I may be wrong but it looks like a copy of the Microheli tail box.

I would urge caution as it looks a lot like it was made Helidirect (or whoever supplies them). If I'm correct then dont expect the quality of the CNC work to be very good.
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09-18-2006 08:38 AM  14 years ago
borneobear

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Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

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To start off, at half trottle, the tail case started to vibrate. At 2/3 trottle, the vibration got so bad it affected the gyro (i'm using a 401). You could literally see the whole tail and heli shaking like mad in mid air. The tail wag was horrandous. I didn't like that at all as the plastic unit could do so much better!

I gave up and went for the Trex Pro tail rotor from Microheli. Not the most robust of them all, but is sure is shiney and smooth.
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