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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-Electric General Discussion › humming bird lost all lift
09-09-2006 02:53 AM  14 years ago
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littleflyer

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Miami, FL

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humming bird lost all lift
hi gang! first time posting please be gentle.
Bird: humming bird V1 or 2 not to sure.

I have been flying my bird a lot lately because i GOT the hover. and now am moving into forward flight and circles. WHAT A BLAST!!!
She looks so much nicer with out the bright orange balls. anyways- i have a stock bird except for the bat. It's a Thunder Power Li-polimer 1320mah/7.4v.

Come home charge the bat.(hobico MKII field) go out side and NOTHING. She gets about 6" of the ground hold the hover but at
full th. that's all she goes, and light in bird turns RED.

- check the tracking; within 1/8"
- check the angl of attack pretty close.
- No sever vibration either just a little bit.
could it be the battery gone bad? need new blades. or have i fried
the electronic?? PLEASE NO NOT THIS ONE.

oh- changed the motor( OEM brushed)- thinking was fried and nothing same deal.

- as a test i twisted the blades to increase the angle of attack an she flys may 3' hover but that it. then starts an up and down bounce like a jack rabbit. up 3' slam the ground, up 3' then back down.
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09-09-2006 03:25 AM  14 years ago
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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sounds like a dead lipo pack. the MKII is a good charger (i use one). but, the bad thing about it is you cannot tell how much of the pack you are using. with a charger like the triton or astro109, it tells you how much current you put back in the pack while charging---thus telling you how much you pulled out during flight.

the reason this is important is because if you overdrain a lipo you will drastically shorten its life. on larger collective pitch machines (which are much heavier) it is easier to tell when the pack is getting close to being "done" because you can easily feel with the collective stick when the voltage is dropping (gotta add more stick to keep the same altitude)

with your light little FP though it just doesnt require that much juice to get off the ground. so, you may be overdrawing the pack without knowing. if you are flying each charge until it won't get off the ground, i'd bet dimes to dollars you got a bad pack now.

i'm no expert and i cannot claim to tell you the 'magic number' to which you should drain a pack. but, i typically don't like to take over 85% out of a pack. i have never put more than 1000mah back into any of my 1320mah packs (which is more like 72%).

if you cannot afford to buy a new charger (especially, now that you may need a new pack) maybe you can get a buddy to let you borrow for a few cycles. then break out the timer. if you can find out how long you can fly at your typical flying style (hovering and ff for now, i suppose) without overdraining the pack then you can just fly a fixed amount of time--trusting that you will not take out too much current.

good luck.
if it ain't broke, break it.
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09-09-2006 06:37 AM  14 years ago
Jimmi

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Southern Ca. U.S.A.

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If your getting the 4-1 or 3-1 light to go red means its powering up but your battery is at its max. I myself asked many people on the care of discharge rates on lipos and to be on the safe side I now run my batterys now at half, in other words if the battery has a 20 min. cycle flight which at 1300 mah it should then I will fly it for 10 minutes to be on the safe side. If you got the old nicad battery give it a try to be sure. Good luck, Jimmi
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09-09-2006 02:28 PM  14 years ago
littleflyer

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Miami, FL

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Thanks guys. Yeap the light goes red at 50% th. and up. If i drop it it goes back to green.

Don't have the old bat.'s gave them to a buddy so he gets more flight time.


So it's off to my freindly hobby shop for a new bat. What do you guys suggest i get? stick with the LiPO or LiON? By biggest question now is the amps. what amperage should i get. I 've read that 1200 mah is too much for a stock bird and i am(was) at 1320. should i go down a bit?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
YES Dear, It's is another hobby
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09-09-2006 11:00 PM  14 years ago
Wheelhaus

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Denver

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Here's some good info that I think is pertinent to your problem and decisions..

The amp hour rating or milliamp hour (mah) (1000mah = 1ah) rating doesn't matter. the weight does. A 1320mah pack can be drained at 1.32 amps for 1 hour. if you're motor is drawing 5 amps then then you get about 15 minute flights.. going from a 750mah pack to a 1500mah pack is like having a gas tank twice as large. It doesn't GIVE you more power, it just lets you go for longer. The motor needs the energy but it will only use as much as it can, having a larger battery doesn't affect this.

Higher capacity packs have longer run times but will weigh more. if you have a 800mah pack and a 1000mah pack that weigh the same, get the 1000. Lithium batteries are rated in "C" ratings. if a lipo has a 10C discharge rate, that means you can suck the power from it at 10x the capacity. so a 1320 battery pack can be discharged at 13.2 amps MAX. Any more than that will damage the battery internally. Lipos typically need to be charged no higher than 1C, which is why you'll never do a full charge in less than an hour. Lipos typically can't be discharged fully either. If you have a 1000mah battery, don't use more than 750-800mah. Lipos are REALLY sensetive to overcharging or over-discharging.

I'm with cudaboy.
If I had to guess, you probably ran the battery until it's dead. This is what killed it. Go ahead and fly normally, but once you notice it takes a little bit more throttle to keep it flying, STOP AND LAND. Eventually you know exactly how long you can fly and you can use a timer. If you fly it until it won't anymore, the chemistry in the pack is destroying itself.

TP makes great batteries, I'd get another because I really doubt it's too much weight for that bird.
..........
Dave
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09-10-2006 11:07 PM  14 years ago
littleflyer

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Miami, FL

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thanks a bunch.
that is some great information. Thanks a bunch. glad i took electriciy in A&P school to understand what you said. I have been searching for this info awhile. Weight is not the issue since this pack is lighter than the bird seed pack. bored a bird seed and she's
flying good. it's the LiPo. THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guys if any of you know a mediator here, pass this thought along.
Runryder is great and DAMN there's a lot of info here for rookies like myself. Finding it is a diferent story. I suggest setting up a beginer forum. NOT JUST A GENERAL disc. but a beginer forum 101. Helicopters 101 etc. Here the users CAN'T post, it's read only.
Runryder- controls what goes in.
Like the explanation on Bateries from Wheelhaus is great.
diference in heli vs. planes;
FP vs CP.
Nitro vs. electric; pros cons
how a heli flys; basic of flight.
weight and balance, more critical in a heli then a plane.
4,6,9 channel trans. what they are for and what they do.
maybe even beginer exercises. tail hover, 3,5' hovers, figure 8

etc....

I am sure the information has already been posted here and there...

It took me a while to figure out how in the hell do you control CP and th. you only have too hands... I mean ( how does it work)
great for a 101 forum.

Just my 2cents worth.

Thanks again guys.
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09-11-2006 12:29 AM  14 years ago
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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EHBG (Electric Helicopter Beginner's Guide)if it ain't broke, break it.
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09-11-2006 03:33 AM  14 years ago
littleflyer

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Miami, FL

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Thanks again cudaboy! That's a "5 star" beginer guide!

!!!!!a must read for all rookies!!!!!


TC
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09-14-2006 01:34 PM  14 years ago
littleflyer

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Miami, FL

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Hey guys i still have a problem. Got a new lipo(1200 2cell 7.4v) and still have have the problem. I get to 3/4 th. and light in the mixer goes from green to red. pull back just a hair goes to green. Go up just a hair and it goes back to RED.

Thinking it could be current draw from the bat. at the point where
light goes to green. i give it FULL rudder to maybe pull more juice from the bat but it stays green never goes to red. now go up on the th. a hair and it goes to red.

I removed the head and the paddles. Ran the motor just driving the
gear with the empty shaft and same outcome. 3/4 all is ok 3/4.1
and it goes to RED.

Now- the replacement motor is NOT a humming bird orginal, it's from a blade CP. bird. ( sent a buddy to pick it up cause he lives next to the shop-guy told him it was the same thing)

Please help i am in full flying withdraws!
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09-14-2006 01:57 PM  14 years ago
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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i don't know much about the blade cp motor. it *shouldnt* be a problem. but that might be the cheapest place to start---replace it with a century gold label motor (and, break it in properly, too for longer life)

otherwise, it sounds like your mixer might be bad.

good news, though (well, you still have to spend money---but not too much). the GWS pha-01 is a great $20 replacement for the hummingboard. i use it on my v3 and it has never given me a problem. it handles my 2s lipo, gold label main and dd tail motor just fine.
if it ain't broke, break it.
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09-14-2006 04:30 PM  14 years ago
CHEVPRO

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Mississauga,Ontario

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birdseed
your problem could be the voltage. the birdseed is either 8.4v or 9.6v Try a 3s pack, might solve the problem.

Todd
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09-14-2006 06:41 PM  14 years ago
Jimmi

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Southern Ca. U.S.A.

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Littleflyer the problem is your 2 cell battery. The blade cp needs a 3 cell 11 volt battery so you don't have enough juice for liftoff. Your 4-1 sounds fine in your description. Get a 3 cell and you should be ready to go. Good luck, Jimmi
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09-14-2006 07:38 PM  14 years ago
Wheelhaus

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Denver

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It's not a blade CP, it's a fixed pitch Hummingbird. If the motor is identical, it won't make a difference.

However, I don't think the 2 cell Lipo has as much juice as the Bird Seed NiMh pack (8.4 or 9.6v right?). The only problem with going to a 3 cell lipo is that it may be TOO MUCH juice for the little bird, You will have to reduce the pinion size (get a 9t Blade CP motor if you need to, same motor but smaller pinion) but most importantly, you'll probably fry the tail motor prematurely on 11.1v.
..........
Dave
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10-20-2006 04:12 AM  14 years ago
littleflyer

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Miami, FL

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Well i borrowed a 3c.(11.1v) from a buddy and flew it today. Flew great for about 3-4 minutes(awesume power) then all hell broke loose. in mid flight the bird went to full power even when i cut the th. final got her down(nasty sound with wood blades) maybe 20' drop and smoke started to pour out. I had completely FRIED the mixer board (toasty). needless to say i returned the bat.> don't think i'll do that again. ( hope it still works or owe buddy a new one. )

Nothing else broke though- this bird is tuff. So i got the old mixer(glad i had) and replaced it. new 7.4 1200a and she's flying normal. light still goes red now at 3/4 stick. but it doesn't seem to be affecting the flying( i am limiting to 10 minutes tops).
So i am good for now.

Oh- direct drive tail motor so i wasn't worried about frying that, didn't think the mixer would be the one to fry.

oh well- live and learn....

still depressed about the crash though, hardest hit i've ever taken...
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10-20-2006 06:27 AM  14 years ago
jtspin

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Reno, NV

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I use three different batteries in my v3. A 10.8V NiMH, a 2-cell Lipo and a 3-cell Lipo. Flies (or I should say hovers, I can't really fly yet) great with all of them. But, I'm using a 3-in-1 from a Blade CP Pro. And by the way, my motor is also for a Blade CP. I have two of the Gold motors that I'll use when I burn up this one.
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