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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterThunder TigerOther › Beginner to Nitro Helis, Lots of Questions
09-08-2006 07:24 AM  14 years ago
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Farrell

rrApprentice

Huntington Beach, CA

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Beginner to Nitro Helis, Lots of Questions
I have two EF Shogun's... simple 400 size electric collective pitch heli's. I fly them whenever I get time during daylight and low-wind times, but being a full time college student, and a full time worker at a hobby shop (fun job!) I get few hours to fly. My main problem is that it's somewhat windy most of the time when I get time to fly. I know bigger heli's are more stable in the wind, so I have been seriously contemplating buying a 30-50 size heli.

I really wanted the T-Rex 600 ... until I saw someone flying a brand new R30. I hated nitro before because I thought they were all loud (like big block r/c car engines... louder than a lawn mower), but man, it was quiet and stable... on it's first tank! Granted the pilot was still breaking the engine in, but it flew great. And I sure as hell dont want to spend over $200 on each LiPo pack for a T-Rex 600, plus $$$ for a 6S chager. OK enough background, onto the questions:

I hear everyone say the R30 should be skipped and just to go straight for a R50. I really want to conserve money, because I know the crashes will cost much more than they do on my mini electrics. The R30V2 comes with an engine, and costs ~$50 less than a R50V2 w/o engine. I do not plan to do any hard 3D for a while, because I'm still learning forward flight. Is a R30 tolerable? I know they make 30>50 conversions too, for ~$100+engine.

Are there any good tips for a beginner to nitro? I know some of the basics ture of all helis, like using thread-lock on metal-metal screws. But any good novice tips? Anything I should really double check when pulling a new R30 out of the box, to make sure the factory didn't mess up on something crucial? Blade grip bolts I assume...

To summarize, my goals are as follows, and any comments are very welcome:

1. More stability in moderate wind/breezes
2. Low cost... both initial and after crashes. This is why I'm thinking against a T-Rex 600... a good crash and a LiPo is toast. $$$
3. Well known, so I can hopefully get help when needed... that pretty much means getting a Raptor.
4. Not to hard to work on (relative to others in its class)

Thanks,
--Farrell F.
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09-08-2006 07:51 AM  14 years ago
firefox

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Thailand

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The difference between the V2 ARF with engine and the Titan kit with TT50 engine in my country is very small ($30), so here very few people buy the 30. The 30 has less power but it also has longer flight times (nearly 30 minutes per tank, compared to 20 for the TT50). So it's a good beginner heli.

Thing is, you already have experience with helis, and should have all the basics down. So, I don't know of any compelling reasons to get the 30, unless you really can't find the Titan cheap.

For tips, look in this forum, raptortechnique.com and rchelicopterweb.com. Nothing that I can think of off the top of my head.

You're going to need a good radio. Something like the 6EX is minimum, but it's a real pain to program... and programming is integral to helis. The 9C or 9X (JR) are the standard, and if you don't have one, then you should get one.

I've flown my Titan in really strong winds, strong enough to blow grounded planks off tables, and it's still enjoyable. I saw my friend try to fly his Trex 450 in slight winds, and he had to fight hard to keep it from crashing.
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09-08-2006 08:54 AM  14 years ago
Krypty

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Amersfoort - Netherlands

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I know you want to save on your costs but before long..... you are going to want a 50.

Just bite down and go for the 50 you will not be disapointed I promise you.


Pieterjan

Can I get that Heli in Periwinkle Blue
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09-08-2006 10:11 AM  14 years ago
DRUMMER

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Dover, UK

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Run..get out now while you still can. Sell the elctrics or better still give them to a convent for the nuns to play with. Stay away fron helis..your family,life and bank balance are all at risk..

...or maybe just get yourself a small 50..it can't hurt and you'll be able to stay in control, it won't take over your life? MUHAHAHA!

drummer

ok..I need more Tea this morning!
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09-08-2006 03:32 PM  14 years ago
BarracudaHockey

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Jacksonville FL

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A 30 with an OS37 is good, a 50 with a hyper is better.

Here's some reading for you http://www.raptortechnique.com
Andy
AMA 77227
http://www.jaxrc.com
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09-08-2006 03:44 PM  14 years ago
jrvander

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Camp Foster, Okinawa japan

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I agree - Run!
If I had known how expensive this hobby would get I would've quit and taken up something cheaper like coccaine. But, if you're determined to do it, the 50 is the better deal. The initial price difference (.30 vs. .50) isn't that much, but the upgrade is significant. A new motor is $180, blades are $70, boom, supports, and belt are $40 - buy a 50 now and save $$$ and heartache. Also, look at the re-sale value of .30 parts - terrible.

For me, 10-12 minutes of flight time is perfect; maintaining absolute concentration for longer than that gets weary. I can fly 12 11-minute flgihts on a gallon of fuel, which isn't as ecomonical as a 30 but still pretty good.

The crash cost difference between the 30 and the 50 is almost the same; 600mm blades vs 550mm are a bit more expensive by $10 maybe, but everything else is equal. There are dozens of online stores that have Raptor parts for really cheap, so it's problaby the easiest bird to obtain parts for, and it's fast and easy to fix.

My 50's are pretty solid in the wind and more stable than my flying skills are up to currently, so wind isn't a problem under 20mph, but I can't say for the .30. Where I live, wind handling is really important.

- Jon
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09-08-2006 05:00 PM  14 years ago
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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I think you'll find that the Raptor will end up being CHEAPER than the shogun in the long run - seems as if the fragile shogun's break more often and the cost of parts between that and a Raptor is not much different.

My suggestions when ordering a new kit:
- Get the PV0499 tail hub - don't use the one that comes in the kit
- get a remote glow lighter
- get hayes/prather fuel line, throw away the stuff that comes w/kit
- Get a crash kit, helps ward off evil spirits
- Do the canopy clip mod

I think everything else that comes in the kit will work just fine. Maybe someone else can chime in if I missed something.

and yes, WARNING: heli's are highly addictive - stay focused on school/career until those are established.
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09-08-2006 05:08 PM  14 years ago
jb_turner

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USA

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Get a 90 size.JB "Do a SEARCH" Turner
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09-08-2006 05:12 PM  14 years ago
Jon the Rooster

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Johns Island, Charleston, SC

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If I had known how expensive this hobby would get I would've quit and taken up something cheaper like coccaine.
There's some truth to that statement!! I'm hooked on heli's now!!
and one more thing "DON'T BE AFRAID!"
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09-08-2006 05:13 PM  14 years ago
Raffy

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Chicago, Illinois

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The 30 machine can do just about everything too. But just as soon as you can fly around SPEED is just like everyone else want to do.
Then regrets of owning a 30 set in.
Save more money until you can get a 50 machine.
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09-08-2006 06:32 PM  14 years ago
turboomni

rrProfessor

East of the Equator

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I'd get a 30 only if you found a real nice used one cheap. They are out there and would save you even more money. If you want to buy an all new heli cough up the coin for a 50. You'll save money in the long run.Setup is everything, All my heli's can fly far better than I can pilot them
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09-08-2006 06:41 PM  14 years ago
eyeflyhelis

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charlotte nc

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if your going to go raptor a 30or 50 both are great flying helis. if 3d is your long term goal-how long? 3 moonths? 6 months? 1-2 years? well if its less than 5 months get a 50 right off. your save your own @$$ plenty of crashed with the power and you will have the perfect 3 d heli.
dont get carried away with add ons- stock flies great.

if 30 size is all you want find a cheaper one- hawk iv or pro is a great stater and fly 3d awsome but a 30 needss much better tunning than a 50 to keep it in the power. a detuned 30 running just out of the power band will crash faster than a fixed pitch heli on a windy day.

if long erm cost is in question just get a 50. selling a 30 is like buying a used diaper, everyone has one & no one wants to use it again. you sell a 50 raptor for close to what you pay for it. a 30 for a lot less unless you get lucky.

btw all my raptors flew perfect on there first flight just minor trim adjustments
only you have the power to make no difference!
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09-08-2006 07:25 PM  14 years ago
spaceman spiff

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Tucson

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My current favorite is a junker 30 with a toki 40 engine. Cheap servos, no bling. Built mostly from scrap parts. Very relaxing to fly. It gets a little over 10 minutes per tank VS ~ 6 minutes for the OS 50, and its still quite rich (breaking it in still). The performance is a big sacrafice, 50's are far better in every way, speed, stability, cleaner rolls and loops, easier to get running smoothly... great autos, hard to bogg down..., but the 30 saves me about 40$ a month in fuel. ( i fly a lot ) right now it suites me because i'm just floating along doing slow fig 8's learning orientations, upside down, backwards.... so i don't really need a lot of power or spectacular performance.
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09-09-2006 05:26 AM  14 years ago
Farrell

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Huntington Beach, CA

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jschenck, some more questions for you:
-why use "PV0499 tail hub" ?
-and for fuel line change... why? does the stock stuff leak easy?
-whats the canopy clip mod?

and the following is directed at any and all

i have never run aircraft engines before... whats the break in procedure? i assume run it slobbering rich, but not so much that it four-cycles, and gently hover the heli...? and for how many tanks?

and is it necessary to use a heli blend of fuel, or will regular aircraft fuel work? i work for a hobby shop that only carries powermaster, and im trying to keep cost down, so i'd like to stick with PM so i can use my discount. some of my options include:

"Powermaster 15% Gallon - Sport Fuel"
"Powermaster 15% Gallon - Heli Fuel (Synth Blend)"
"Powermaster YS 20/20 Gallon - Pattern Fuel"
and i think i saw a few gallons of 30% fuel, not sure if its a heli blend or not.

whats the difference between regular aircraft fuel and heli fuel?

i don't expect to be doing hard 3D any time soon, so i think 15-20% nitro should be more than enough power for me, correct?

thanks,
--farrell f.
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09-09-2006 05:39 AM  14 years ago
eyeflyhelis

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charlotte nc

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15% is plenty nitro. heli fuel has more lubricants than planes & cars but less (or at least a different blend) then 4 strokes.
good luck, since you work at a shop i would definitaly go with the 50 because its going to run you less then another person to run a 50 size.
might even costyou less than 30 size
only you have the power to make no difference!
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09-09-2006 06:14 AM  14 years ago
firefox

rrApprentice

Thailand

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The PV0499 tail hub is because the standard tail hub is known to fail, which can cause a crash. Better yet, also get 2 thrust bearings to replace 2 radial bearings in the tail.
The clunk lines (the fuel tubing *inside* the main and header fuel tank) provided in the kit are very thin and will deteriorate quickly.
The canopy clip mod is to put a screw through the skis where the canopy clip holds on to the skis to make it harder for the canopy to slip off during 3D moves.

Break in procedure is to run it rich (not slobbering rich). There are many methods, and one is to hover it to heat it up a bit, bring it down and idle, hover again, bring it down, etc. This is to get it to alternatively heat up and cool down. Gradually lean it in during the course of a few tanks of fuel, until it's running good.

Regular 2-stroke fuel works. 15% is good enough for most things.
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09-09-2006 06:18 AM  14 years ago
Farrell

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Huntington Beach, CA

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i almost forgot. what temps should i expect from a OS Max .50 SXH heli engine during break-in, and after break-in. where do i point my IR gun... glowplug?

being a beginner to nitro, should i get one of those onboard temp meters, like the one from MIP?

lastly, i have a Eclipse 7 w/ Spectra as my TX, and for RX I'm still undecided. I have three RX's right now... an Electron 6, a Berg 7P, and a Hitec Micro 05S. I have been told I should really get a PCM RX since i have the Spectra module for my Eclipse 7. The only PCM RX my work carries is the hitec QPCM RX designed for my Eclipse 7. Does it have a reputation for being good/bad?

And just on the topic of PCM, and I correct in assuming it will only process signals from my TX, or does it only check for corruption, but will allow someones else's TX on my channel to cause a crash?

Thanks,
--Farrell F.
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09-09-2006 06:20 AM  14 years ago
jschenck

rrProfessor

La Vista, NE.

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- PV0499 is a better designed tail hub, blowing off a tail blade sucks
- the stock lines will fail quickly causing problems
- put a screw into the landing gear and drill a hole on the canopy clip, it'll keep the canopy from popping up and jamming the swash plate

read/follow the directions that come with the engine for break-in. The OS comes with pretty good instructions on that.

I run 15% Wildcat 'aircraft' with 18% synth oil, serves me well.

so some searching on the RR forums for these issues, they've been covered quite a bit and there is lots of good info.

like BH said - read the raptortechnique website, Michael has great info.
and Girard had great build info at team-raptor <dot> net for the R50
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09-09-2006 06:23 AM  14 years ago
Hummingbird3D

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California

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Although you're posting this in the Raptor section, I'd put in the recommendation of the Trex 450XL/SE/SA. Given the fact that you are a full time college student there's probably less time for you to get to a flying field which, however, doesn't mean you shouldn't still get AMA(diff topic). Colleges have lots of open fields that you can get to, and at certain times won't have people around them.

The Trex can be calmed down for you with flybar weights and expo added while you are working on ff skills and just as easily removed for when you are able to fly more aggressively. As a student the repair costs are low, ie. blades ~$12 for instance. The other convenience is flying sort of silently as I do during mornings.

If need be you can just load up your book laden car with just the heli with battery and transmitter & you're ready for flying!


If you can get to a flying field easily then get the Raptor 50, most of us end up there anyways.
Fly It Like You're On The Simulator!
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09-09-2006 07:12 AM  14 years ago
spaceman spiff

rrKey Veteran

Tucson

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i almost forgot. what temps should i expect from a OS Max .50 SXH heli engine during break-in, and after break-in. where do i point my IR gun... glowplug?
glow plug is not very accessable. I use an IR on the right side of the cylinder. Mine are mostly running in the 160 F range. For break-in a littel lower. A lot of guys just go fly it, some prefer to let it idle thru a tank nice and rich, before starting to break it in.
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