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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Rolls or Loops - Why into the wind
09-09-2006 12:54 AM  14 years ago
NewHeli

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Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA

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Well I didn't mean to say it that way...no there is no more lift, but you can definitely tell a difference when you pull up into an upwind loop

Nathaniel
Nathaniel Rice
Team YS Engines
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09-09-2006 02:09 AM  14 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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It's all relative. If you're on approach (full scale) and you have a 60kt indicated airspeed and you have a 20kt wind shear...from the tail......you will lose lift.....and the indicated airspeed will drop abruptly. You will have to add power and gain airspeed. Of course all of this is more pronounced at lower speeds....but airspeed is airspeed and downwind rolls look better..Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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09-09-2006 03:06 AM  14 years ago
NitroPolymer

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Southeast Florida

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Windshear is an execption, as it is a rapid change in direction or velocity of the airmass. The phenomina that occur during a windshear event do so because the change in direction of the airmass is so rapid that it literaly is blowing by the aircraft; They are also almost exclusivly limited to occuring during areas of thunderstorms, which I hope most R/C'ers are not flying in!
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09-10-2006 02:20 AM  14 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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They are also almost exclusivly limited to occuring during areas of thunderstorms, which I hope most R/C'ers are not flying in!
Have you ever landed anywhere where there are trees around the airport......or hills......or anything other than absolute flatness....

Try flying your heli in an open field bordered by tall pines and let the breeze blow. To say this only occurs around thunderstorms is an absolute untruth.......sorry. Ask me how I know.

Jetcopter.....you being a corporate pilot.....I would have thought you would have never made the above statement.
Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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09-10-2006 02:32 AM  14 years ago
Heli88

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Clarkston, MI

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shuttlepilot,I think you are talking about turbulence. Windshear is something different. You don't get windshear from trees. Windshear is associated with thunderstorms.

Take a look at: http://oea.larc.nasa.gov/PAIS/Windshear.html
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09-10-2006 02:37 AM  14 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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I used to fly a 680 Commander into and out of a 3500 ft. stip in a mountain valley in NE Georgia. You can call it whatever name you want to, the end result was the same. I've experience windshear from thunderstorms also....airplane reacted the same. Sorry to digress off topic, but I've lived this.....I don't care what technical name you want to give it.Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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09-10-2006 02:40 AM  14 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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Let's also remember the initial question. We're talking about how the wind direction affects the flight characteristics. We're not talking what the term is for the changes in wind direction. Only what the effects are.....who cares what causes it.Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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09-10-2006 02:41 AM  14 years ago
Heli88

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Clarkston, MI

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I care what technical name you call it. It is difficult to communicate effectively when you use the incorrect terminology. Congtats on flying a commander.
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09-10-2006 02:49 AM  14 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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All I am saying is that you guys are trying to complicate the crap out of something. Who cares what you call changes in wind direction when your flying the heli? Are you sitting there going......now that's windshear,,,,,so I should move the right stick to WHEREVER. I don't think so. Some of the best pilots I have ever met didn't try to dazzle you with a bunch of "terms" to show their superiority in Aviation Knowledge. Those were the guys I wanted backing me up when the conditions were going in the toilet. I mean geez....lighten up.....It's a hobby for goodness sake.Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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09-10-2006 03:03 AM  14 years ago
Heli88

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Clarkston, MI

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Jetcopter.....you being a corporate pilot.....I would have thought you would have never made the above statement.
I agree, it's just a hobby. However, you are the one that called the teminology into question. I just tried to clarify it. So long...
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09-10-2006 03:05 AM  14 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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OK you win. I give. I'll fly with you anytime, just give me a shout. ANYWAY....rolls look better with the wind and loops work out better into the wind.......Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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09-10-2006 03:10 AM  14 years ago
Heli88

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Clarkston, MI

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I'll try rolls with the wind tomorrow.
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09-10-2006 08:28 AM  14 years ago
wrathofkhan

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LA, CA - US

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I am very surprised with all the responses. Didn't expect it at all ...

I am a beginner as far as Heli is concerned. I have been flying gliders or motorized gliders for over 20 years. For gliders - loops, rolls are much easier - when done against the wind. At least from a beginners point of view.

Is it the same for Helicopters ? I have read otherwise, that is why I had posed the initial question.

Thank you very much ...
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09-10-2006 11:51 PM  14 years ago
shuttlepilot

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Mullins, South Carolina

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I think from a beginners point of view.....or my experience when just starting out. Doing rolls into the wind I would sometimes baloon a little....ending up nose up....sometimes a little too much for my comfort. I know this balooning was initiated by poor stick control on my part when rolling. It's just more pronounced when into the wind.Gas is Great
Camper Fuel is Better!!
QWW Helis
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09-11-2006 01:40 PM  14 years ago
Barney

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Inverness Scotland

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wrathofkhan

Loops are just like with your fixed wing models..try them fairly small to start off into wind using plenty of forward speed just like as if you are flying a plank. Later on you will learn how to strecth them using the collective etc.

Rolls..TBH they do look tidier going down wind but maybe the ground speed might put you off if its breezy. For your first attempts I would fly into wind at a moderate speed.

Another good tip for rolls when learning is to enter them a just a tad nose DOWN..Opposite to what most plank flyers tend to do.

Also keep everything high to start.

Heli's in general roll a little slower than planks so allow for this. When bailing out it's usually better to keep rolling till upright. Better to commit yourself and smoothly apply full aileron...remember to reduce your pitch to zero during the roll itself..once you become more confident at the inverted part you add a little negative..just like a good plank flyer uses a dab of down elev to maintain heading..and just build from there
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09-11-2006 03:39 PM  14 years ago
Yug

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UK. Herts

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I find rolling circles are very tricky in a wind because of the way in which roll rates and everything else are so effected. The side on bits aren't so bad but the difference in inputs for the into and out of wind are so different, ie, into the wind, lots of good clean air so you have to ease off on the aileron to maintain roll rate, but forward speed suffers so you have to nose it quite a bit, but downwind you need more aileron, but because you're putting the brakes on to try and restrict speed, the tail can easily get out of step. The nature of the inputs are just constantly changing sooo much. Don't you just love calm days for stuff like this.Vegetable rights and Peace
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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › Rolls or Loops - Why into the wind
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