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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-AlignOther › 450SE a bit unresponsive and strange interference
09-06-2006 03:55 PM  14 years ago
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cliffbarrimore

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Welcome Bay, Tauranga, New Zealand

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450SE a bit unresponsive and strange interference
Hi
I have a rex SE all standard, I have read loads that these helis need calming down, I wish mine was a bit more responsive, it feels like there is loads of expo dialled in, could this be just the flybar weights to the outside by the paddles? (I will try moving them inboard for the next flight)

Also I experienced some very strange things today...

TX on
Heli just landed after 5mins of hovering on a full battery
rotors just stopped, then what appeared to be a mega glitch happened, the heli spooled up almost to hovering speed and stayed there for at least 10 seconds, all with no input from me, then dropped back to throttle down position.
Admittidly I have an FMA FS8(PPM) receiver on this heli, but I have never seen anything like that before, and it happened several times.
(new PCM RX is on order)

Also those align HH gyros are a bit rubbish, turn the gain up and the tail wags, turn it down a notch and it drifts like mad...

beginning to wish I haddn't bought the thing!!!

Cliff
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09-06-2006 07:23 PM  14 years ago
glucoseboy

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SF, CA

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Hey there Cliff,

When I first set up my SE, I put the weights by the paddles as well. I found the weights to slow the response way too much. I'd have to chase the heli with the sticks. Moving them in made a big difference. Check your swash movement, make sure your're getting full deflections. What I find helpful is to set up the head so that mechanically, you get full deflections and thus maximum responsiveness, then use the Expo in the Tx to "calm things down". This way, you can easily tune the responsiveness of your SE easily to get it feeling just right!

A PCM receiver should help on reducing the strange glitches you've experienced (yes, your FMA receiver is probably not the best one for electric helis). I feel that many glitch issues can be traced back to the setup itself, component and wire placement. Do you mind posting a photo of your setup for us to look at?

As I'm sure you've read, the gold-standard for gyros on the Trex is the Futaba 401. I've got one on my SE and it works great. My brother-in-law has the Futaba 240 and it also locks the tail quite nicely. I would recommend getting one of those gyros. It makes a big difference.

Hang in there!, It takes a while to dial-in new helis and the Trex SE has its fair share of quirks.


My setup: Trex SE, Quark 33, Astro 020, Futaba 401/9650, Hitec Electron 6.
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09-06-2006 11:08 PM  14 years ago
Rennster

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Hawaii

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Futaba GY401 or 240 +1
Align Gyro -1
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09-07-2006 12:24 AM  14 years ago
Hummingbird3D

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California

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I would recommend taking the weights off instead of just moving them in (unless you're just learning on this Trex) as well & dialing expo. You can make changes quickly and revert back to them if you don't like the new response.

A few times I've had a similar situation like yours when I just landed the heli and for some strange reason it would spool up, and sometimes with the throttle lock on. After checking things out the common denominator was that my transmitter battery was getting too low, therefore, the lose of signal even though I was very close, caused the motor to spool up again. That's one thing you might check into.

Change the gyro - Futaba 401 or 240.

Make sure your headspeed is high, a low headspeed = lethargic heli.
Fly It Like You're On The Simulator!
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09-07-2006 01:22 AM  14 years ago
aircare84

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Marysville,OH

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Would agree with removing the weight also.I run -8% expo & no weights & it is almost too responsive for me @ times.
Have the 401 gyros ,never looked back.
PCM is also a good idea.
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09-07-2006 08:29 AM  14 years ago
cliffbarrimore

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Welcome Bay, Tauranga, New Zealand

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Hi All

thanks for the ideas, I have moved the weights in to half mast to see how that performs.

Gyro and Rx will be sorted soon, interestingly I had the flight recorder installed to the FMA FS8, and that recorded 1 fail safe and about 250 bad frames, which was not too bad, I think I also may have fixed the spooling up too, I looked at the fail safe settings and for some reason it was set to 1/4 throttle, I have reset the RX to hold last good frame and see how that preforms.

Head speed is an interesting one, I dont have a tacho so have no idea what speed the head is at, I am guessing it to be about 17-1800 or more.

What kind of throttle/pitch curve should I be looking at. I am not after a screaming 3d heli, Its just a park flyer that I use at lunchtimes

thanks Guys

Cliff
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09-07-2006 11:19 AM  14 years ago
TRex888

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Monmouth, UK

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You need more headspeed. 2400 rpm is generally accepted as the starting point. Pitch +10/-10. As for throttle, your ESC and motor would thank you for running at near 100% as muuch as possible.

BTW, any kind of binding in the head/tail on this little bird will cause to heli to behave fuuny, but not necessaryily unflyable so check everything after any rebuild or accident no matter howw small.
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09-07-2006 11:49 AM  14 years ago
cliffbarrimore

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Welcome Bay, Tauranga, New Zealand

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Ok
I'm going flying in about 10 mins so I shall bump up the throttle curve a bit and see what happens


thanks
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09-07-2006 12:49 PM  14 years ago
dct

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San Angelo TX.

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Idle up 1 no lower then 80%..Idle up 2 no lower then 90% timing on your esc??? For motor. Is it a CC 35? If so there is a timing advance setting for different motors you can play with..**Now doing Forward Flight And EASY 3d! And having a Ball !!**
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09-07-2006 12:57 PM  14 years ago
cliffbarrimore

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Welcome Bay, Tauranga, New Zealand

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Back from flying and with the flybar weights moved into the middle the handling improved, but still not as good as I would like, so I will remove the weights and see how that is.

I put the throttle curve to about 80% (just running normal mode)in the hover the head speed seemed to go up a bit..
It's very windy today, but the heli handled it very well, as good as any of the Nitro's I have...


can you put these 25amp align esc into gov. mode?
I think I have the timing set to mid, which I beleive is the max for the align motor, I have no-idea what pinion is on the heli, but I am sure the head speed could(should) go a lot higher

I also didn't experience any glitches , but I will look at the flight recorder module tonight

Cliff
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09-07-2006 01:29 PM  14 years ago
TRex888

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Monmouth, UK

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Up your throttle to 100% at max pitch and 95% at 0 pitch. You won't regret it. Someone explained this to me and it sounded logical so don't shot me if you think different.

The electric motor would like to run at 100% and has a lot more torque than a nitro, so if you run 100% throttle as long as the motor is good for it and the battery can supply the amps without the voltage dropping you really shouldn't need governor mode. I personnaly found that having a 5% dip in the middle of my curve did make the motor sound happier when doing climb outs.

Also, this is my own thinking. In governor mode the motor is always playing catch up as the ESC has to sense and correct the throttle to maintain the RPM, and if the RPM is getting too low with a high load then something is wrong with the motor or battery so the governor doesn't really help.
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09-07-2006 02:08 PM  14 years ago
cliffbarrimore

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Welcome Bay, Tauranga, New Zealand

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Good points, I will Give that a go tomorrow

thanks

Cliff
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09-08-2006 09:38 AM  14 years ago
cliffbarrimore

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Welcome Bay, Tauranga, New Zealand

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60 bad frames
I looked at the flight recorder and it recorded 60 bad frames over 13 mins of flying, at 45 frames a second (35000+frames over the time period) thats not bad, and the all occured either why the motor was spooling up or shutting down...So not too bad.
1 problem solved(hopefully)

I will see today how the heli responds with the flybar weights moved right in board

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09-08-2006 12:28 PM  14 years ago
cliffbarrimore

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Welcome Bay, Tauranga, New Zealand

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RX has got to go, I just had at least a 15 second lockout, Luckily I had set the failsafe to hold last good frame so the heli hovered about 15 feet up and gently decended touched down, then I regained control...a bit scary, mainly as it is so unpredictable.

Grounding heil until a new RX arrives...
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09-08-2006 01:16 PM  14 years ago
TRex888

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Monmouth, UK

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146i you can't go wrong
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