RunRyder RC
WATCH
 12 pages [ <<    <     4      5     ( 6 )     7      8     NEXT    >> ] 18351 views Topic Closed
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › New plug-in 2.4GHz modules!
09-10-2006 03:10 AM  14 years ago
heli-cuzz

rrElite Veteran

Pittston, Pa. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
I already ran spektrum on my Caliber30 and had no glitches. Back on 72... glitch, glitch, glitch, every tank full.

I will buy it for my 9chp as soon as its available.
Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-10-2006 12:53 PM  14 years ago
dialarotor

rrElite Veteran

Traverse City, Michigan

MyPosts All Forum Topic
💎Sustaining Member
Ponder this. There are 80 frequencies in the 2.4g system and the TX/RX will sort out any two and then lock-on and link up. OK, that gives us 40 possible pilots/aircraft units IF they are in close proximity. Now, let's go to IRCHA, or OC BOB'S, or someplace with a really long flight-line. Let's say I am zooming along large and not doing the in-my-face 3D stuff. My heli/plane is moving away from me and going down the back side of the flight area and moves closer to say 10-15 other GHZ-pilots. Does my aircraft all of sudden sense a much stronger signal and reject one or both of my frequencies and fall in love with a stranger and crash into the ground. What happens to all this pairing up when the other pilots using the GHZ system are widely scattered about a contest site?

Dialarotor
RapRexSynLogo Pilot
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-10-2006 01:01 PM  14 years ago
JKos

rrProfessor

Redondo Beach, CA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
> Does my aircraft all of sudden sense a much stronger signal and
> reject one or both of my frequencies and fall in love with a
> stranger and crash into the ground.

No, once you bind the receiver and transmitter, the receiver will not "listen" to any other transmitter even if it is occupying one of the same two frequency bins. This is part of the beauty of spread spectrum using CDMA... Multiple users can occupy the same exact frequency space.

The other user(s) will look like noise to your receiver and add to the overall noise floor.

- John
RR rules!
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-10-2006 01:14 PM  14 years ago
dialarotor

rrElite Veteran

Traverse City, Michigan

MyPosts All Forum Topic
💎Sustaining Member
Heard that JR was introducing the 6102 with the SS module and how about the new 7202? Now you have a heli radio to use this stuff, not just the 6-channel Specktrum.RapRexSynLogo Pilot
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-10-2006 01:25 PM  14 years ago
heli-cuzz

rrElite Veteran

Pittston, Pa. USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Heard that JR was introducing the 6102 with the SS module and how about the new 7202? Now you have a heli radio to use this stuff, not just the 6-channel Specktrum.
I have a friend that took the spektrum radio module and installed it into a JR radio. That let him use the programming and curves of the JR system but on 2.4GHz. JR and the spektrum are very compatible, so I'm told.

Here's my Caliber30 on Spektrum before it went back on 72 megs. I liked knowing I couldn't be shot down by another radio. Back on 72, thats always in the back of my mind.

Fury 55 NIB Furion6 CGY750 fbl helicopter-Frenzy CGY750 fbl nitro-Frenzy fbl NOBAR90
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 05:15 PM  14 years ago
kookboy

rrKey Veteran

Vancouver, BC

MyPosts All Forum Topic
If I'm right anyone with a wifi-enabled computer/pda can shoot you down on the 2.4GHz pretty easy.
I work for IBM and have posted tests ealier this year flying my Trex ontop of our building with the Wifi/Satelite and WLAN transitters all bunched around me with a co-worker flying another DX6. Never had a glitch.
Kookboy,

"The furthest my contract went to was our standing point just shy of a 14 mile distance over and behind a glacier. "

Are you saying that you are using the Spektrum DX6 to fly a glider 14 miles away? Or are you using a more powerful, specialized 2.4 system?

Mike
Mike,

Yes, I am just using my XP6102DX (6102 Spektrumized with the DX6 Tx module) and stock DX6 receiver. Onboard is a stock Blackwidow 2.4ghz 3000mw A/V transmitter powered by a 800mah lipo feeding back to a 2.4Ghz Diversity Receiver with the video feed into my video card in my laptop. On the glider is a small Astro outrunner with a Eflight 20a BL ESC, HS81 for the elev/rudder and a TP 2100 4S1P. The DX6 receiver is mounted outside the fuse on the belly underneath the wings with the antenna's facing forward and left.

Never a lockout, glitch or odd behavior.

The reason why the Spektrum DX6 was marketed to 'parkflyers' only is a number of reasons, the main being liability, new technology and price. There are still some clubs in my area that will not allow me to fly using this system, eventhough I have the AMA/FCC cert.

Technically, it is considered to be fully operational within line of sight only, however I have yet to encounter a signal loss around obstacles, man made or natural.
... But honey it was only $$$
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 06:02 PM  14 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
The reason why the Spektrum DX6 was marketed to 'parkflyers' only is a number of reasons, the main being liability, new technology and price. There are still some clubs in my area that will not allow me to fly using this system, eventhough I have the AMA/FCC cert.
Has this TX/RF Module been FCC Type Accepted? Is using this combination even legal?
  
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 06:14 PM  14 years ago
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

MyPosts All Forum Topic
The fact that it's on the market is a real strong indication that it's type accepted. I think we can safely assume that the manufacturer followed FCC requirements.

Asking if this combination is legal is something like asking if the combination of you talking into a microphone connected to a type accepted RF section legal.

Where the standard modulation data comes from is not under FCC control.

Wolfgang
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 06:23 PM  14 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
The fact that it's on the market is a real strong indication that it's type accepted. I think we can safely assume that the manufacturer followed FCC requirements.

Asking if this combination is legal is something like asking if the combination of you talking into a microphone connected to a type accepted RF section legal.

Where the standard modulation data comes from is not under FCC control.
I was under the impression that the entire unit TX/antenna/module needed to be FCC Type Accepted as a single unit.

Wasn't this the case with folks trying to use the Hitec Spectra module in their Futaba TXs a while back?
  
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 06:49 PM  14 years ago
helo_chris

rrVeteran

goodlettsville, tn

MyPosts All Forum Topic
was under the impression that the entire unit TX/antenna/module needed to be FCC Type Accepted as a single unit.
I think that is something that has been propagated by the manufacturers more than anything else. If I understand correctly the module and crystal have to be type accepted as a unit and the crystals cannot be changed but not the module and Tx. Here is a little more info on it.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94580

On the DX6/6102 mod, I have seen where it was accepted by the AMA, and was eluded to that it didnt violate the FCC requirements, but I havent read much on it and dont know for sure about the FCC part.
"There is a fine line between cutting edge and bleeding edge.."
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 07:47 PM  14 years ago
w.pasman

rrElite Veteran

Netherlands

MyPosts All Forum Topic
OK thanks for these quotes on tests on this system. IMHO that gives a better impression of this system performance than the manufacturer's quotes.
I don't think there is a way to "communicate with the receiver about a new frequency" when the connection is lost though. I assume that they think this is not necessary as they expect never to lose communications?
I would think that while that statement implies 99.999% of the R/C market doesn't need this system, it also implies large scale gassers and turbines.
Well in fact I would not put this system in a turbine and fast ducted fan models. There is a doppler shift of the radio waves that is known to cause problems when you are driving fast already (I thought about 200km/h is the limit for mobile phone). I think these SS radio links will break down at high speeds.
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 07:54 PM  14 years ago
w.pasman

rrElite Veteran

Netherlands

MyPosts All Forum Topic
The other user(s) will look like noise to your receiver and add to the overall noise floor.
So there MAY be a problem if you fly at half a mile distance and come close to one of those 3000mW transmitters? I mean is a weak SS signal detectable through a barrage of a full-spectrum noise at that amplitude?
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 08:00 PM  14 years ago
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

MyPosts All Forum Topic
For a better comprehention of what the FCC is watching;

The FCC mandate is monitoring and policing of the airways. This means clean signals and clean language on pre-designated frequencies. Over modulation which causes adjacent channel splatter is not allowed. Excessive power is not permitted. Foul language is not permitted.

The signal used to modulate those RF signals (other than foul language on public bands) is of no concern to the FCC.

To keep certification requirements to a minimum, some manufacturers have put the RF generating (FCC controled) portion of the transmitters in a module.

The crystal, being only part of the RF generating mechanism, is technically not allowed to be changed by the user because of crystal variations which can cause off-frequency operation. Use a series resonant crystal in a parallel resonant circuit and the frequency will be off by some amount. Because of the manufacturing tollerances in most crystals, nobody gets too concerned with untrained or uncertified people changing crystals.

Wolfgang
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 08:05 PM  14 years ago
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Well in fact I would not put this system in a turbine and fast ducted fan models. There is a doppler shift of the radio waves that is known to cause problems when you are driving fast already (I thought about 200km/h is the limit for mobile phone). I think these SS radio links will break down at high speeds.
Doppler shift ? You're kidding . . . right ?

Tell me, how fast would you have to be going to incur a doppler shift of as little as 10Hz ? An amount that will cause NO problems.

Wolfgang
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 08:23 PM  14 years ago
Peter Wales

rrElite Veteran

Orlando Fl

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Thats easy, warp 9.95 will do it. Then you will have to use a sub space carrier for communications.

The DX6 obviously has full FCC approval and the modification to the 6102 using the DX6 Tx board has also been FCC approved. For AMA approval of the mod, you need to have the DX6 sticker on the back of your 6102 to show you have mangled a genuine DX6 and not chewed up an old network card
Peter Wales
http://scalehelicopters.org
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 08:24 PM  14 years ago
RCHeliJim

rrElite Veteran

Orem, UT USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
"But Im giving it all its got captain!!!"

I will volunteer to be a guinea pig for this technology, will try it with a plank first


Go Fly, Have Fun!!
-Team Quick UK
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 08:32 PM  14 years ago
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

MyPosts All Forum Topic
That was a bad question. Let's try that again.

The frequency tolerance from the FCC is 0.005% (0.002% for some satelite uses) For the 2.4GHz band, that's 2400MHz x 0.005% = 120KHz.
The wave length at 2.4GHz is about 4.92 inches.
120,000 x 4.92 inches is 9.32 miles
That's 9.32 miles per second or 33,500 MPH

To be out of tolerance with the carrier frequency,
you need to be moving faster than 33,500 MPH.

Another way to look at it is 0.005% of the speed of light.
0.005% x 186282 Miles per second = 33,531 MPH

At 33,500 MPH, you may have enough doppler shift to be off frequency.
I don't think your turbine is that fast.

Wolfgang
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 08:35 PM  14 years ago
kookboy

rrKey Veteran

Vancouver, BC

MyPosts All Forum Topic
DX6 Spectrum module is AMA/FCC approved.
http://www.runryder.com/t250254p1/

And that is what I did. Used it on a cheap easystar out to spec to see if it really does work.

Hilgert and the guys at RCG have done thourough and technical testing in regards to the DX6 2.4 system. He was one of the pioneers and the 'man' who had the ball rolling for the FCC testing exam.

This is what I have the receivers in and never had a glitch:

Trex SE
Trex V2 in a scale huey body
E-Raptor 50
Raptor 30/nitro
Easystar glider
Homemade AP glider

Anyone who claims or says that it doesn't work,has limitations or is only for parkflyers is full of it and has no idea about the thorough testing and people/time/applications involved.

It works and I was happy to be a part of the original testing.

In regards to the Fut module, I am looking forward to it with positive intentions and hope that it works as well in my tested applications and the DX6 has.

This will open a lot of doors to the Fut user base.
... But honey it was only $$$
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 08:45 PM  14 years ago
AirWolfRC

rrProfessor

42½ N, 83½ W

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Keep in mind that the AMA has NO position or authority to approve or dis-approve any radio equipment what so ever. They talk to (lobby) the FCC about recommendations but have NO regulatory or enforcement power.

Wolfgang
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  HOMEPAGE  GALLERY  Attn:RR
09-14-2006 09:51 PM  14 years ago
Ace Dude

rrProfessor

USA

MyPosts All Forum Topic
Anyone who claims or says that it doesn't work,has limitations or is only for parkflyers is full of it and has no idea about the thorough testing and people/time/applications involved.
Well, as far as limitations, I have heard several reports that response time is quite slow compared to a traditional 72MHz Airtronics/Futaba 14MZ system. Additionally, some will find the number of channels limiting as well.

If you're so confident about this technology why not put it in a nice $10K turbing and show us the way? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, I just saying I'm not going to be first in line on the bleeding edge.
  
SHARE  PM  EMAIL  GALLERY  Attn:RR
WATCH
 12 pages [ <<    <     4      5     ( 6 )     7      8     NEXT    >> ] 18351 views Topic Closed
Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterHelicopter Main Discussion › New plug-in 2.4GHz modules!
Print TOPIC

 33  Topic Subscribe

Wednesday, November 25 - 7:30 am - Copyright © 2000-2020 RunRyder   EMAILEnable Cookies

Login Here
 New Subscriptions 
 Buddies Online