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Home✈️Aircraft🚁Helicoptere-AlignOther › Tail wagging after pirouette
09-04-2006 04:01 PM  14 years ago
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BANDANA

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Rochelle, Illinois

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Tail wagging after pirouette
GY401-9650 digi on tail Delay set to 0, DS set to ON
Electron 6 Rx

Tail holds solid from hovering thru aggressive circuits.
After a stationary quick pirouette though the tail continues to wag almost uncontrollably until next tail input.

I can't find any slop. Where do go now?

Bandana
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09-04-2006 04:12 PM  14 years ago
Jon the Rooster

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Johns Island, Charleston, SC

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By looking at your profile seams you know what's up! A small thing to try, with battery pluged in, turn your Delay up & then back down to 0.
Just a shot in the Dark!
and one more thing "DON'T BE AFRAID!"
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09-04-2006 05:19 PM  14 years ago
BANDANA

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Rochelle, Illinois

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JTR~
Raining today, but will give it a try if it clears.
Thanks
Bandana
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09-04-2006 06:00 PM  14 years ago
cudaboy_71

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sacramento, ca, u.s.

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did you check for binding on the pushrod through the guide? if you're not using the guide, check for wasted flex in the pushrod. you may need to use a guide or a stiffer pushrod.

are you using a ball link on the 9650 or a z-bend? check for too-stiff connection at this point. make sure the servo didnt slip around on the boom and the wheel is not rubbing on the boom.

just some suggestions you might not have gone through yet. good luck.
if it ain't broke, break it.
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09-04-2006 10:21 PM  14 years ago
BANDANA

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Rochelle, Illinois

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Tried the gain up/down and still the same.

Using a carbon rod for the tail and plenty of stiffness. Ball joint at servo.
Will inspect for Cuda's suggestions later tonight and retest after the tornado warnings go away.

Bandana
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09-04-2006 10:37 PM  14 years ago
Sarge3D

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Minnesota

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I'm having a similar problem. Almost same setup but I have a JR 8103 Tx. Mine happens when I do a loop. At the top of the loop the tail starts to slide a little one way.

In idle up, I have my throttle curve at 100, 90, 100. Someone suggested that I go 100, 100, 100.
Ouch! That ground hurts!!
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09-04-2006 11:53 PM  14 years ago
ShellDude

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East Coventry, PA

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I had a similar issue with my 401 and 94761Z... problem didn't surface until I tried my first stall turn to the right... I'd been doing them to the left without issue.

Anyway, it'd swing back around and be pointing down and the tail would wag faster and harder than my black lab in the morning when she greets me.

I ended up having to dial down my gain quite a bit on my 6102. I had been running at around +85 (0 end points - all set via subtrim).

Finally found the happy spot at around +45... HH light stays on at 45 with this radio. If I recall correctly I would have to take the subtrim all the way down to zero to get it into Rate mode.

It took a bit of practice to get used to the different tail feel and I have no idea why it took a right facing stall turn for the problem to surface, but man, was I happy once I got used to the new feel and could do them again without the wag.
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09-05-2006 01:29 PM  14 years ago
BANDANA

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Rochelle, Illinois

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Cuda~
No binding found and the servo clear of the boom.

I can try and back down the gain a little but I would think that would show up wagging at other times. I will try it.

Thanks
Bandana
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09-05-2006 03:04 PM  14 years ago
Tintin

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Akershus, Norway

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I'd go for a slight delay if it does not wag in other settings.
Might also check distance from servo center to ball link.
0.5 cm is enough for a full throw.
“Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.”
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09-05-2006 03:55 PM  14 years ago
Ted R

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Helena, MT

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Tail Wagging
Just had a similar problem with a brand new machine and found it had bad tail blade grip bearings.
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09-05-2006 05:19 PM  14 years ago
Rui_JC

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Portugal

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Try adding some delay !

Delay at zero maybe the reason !
increase the delay pot. a bit and do the piruet. If you notice that its getting better, just keep adding more delay untill it stops !

Also, what is your gain in the radio ?

try reduce 10% in that gain !
Keep it up...literally
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09-05-2006 05:25 PM  14 years ago
ShellDude

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East Coventry, PA

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I can try and back down the gain a little
In my case it ended up being quite a bit.

With +85 subtrim on my JR 6102 radio converted to a typical gain percentage scale (with 50% being the cut-over between rate and HH) means that my gain was previously at 92.5%.

When you convert what I took it down to (+45) you start see just how far I went... +45 subtrim on my JR radio converts to 72.5%

I wouldn't bet the farm that your problem is the same. I just wanted to share one of my stoopid moments with ya calling out the possibility that it could be something similar.

I don't understand why you'd want to increase your delay. It's a digital servo. It's all 0s and 1s unless I'm missing something that the real pros know about.

Looking beyond the fact that I had my gain pegged at 93%, I think the reason why I only saw the wag in one direction is because it had to work harder going against the torque of the motor/ main blades.

Shell
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09-06-2006 04:30 PM  14 years ago
BANDANA

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Rochelle, Illinois

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Reduced my gain down and still have the problem. I was at 80%, now at 60% on a 9C.
Hmmm...
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09-06-2006 04:35 PM  14 years ago
Rui_JC

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Portugal

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Did you notice even a small change ?

Just a quick note...i fly my raptor 50 with 40% gain !

.
Keep it up...literally
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09-06-2006 05:31 PM  14 years ago
JVheli

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Milwaukee,WI USA

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I too had this happen. I do not know what ECS you are using, but my money is that you are using gov mode on an align ESC. Either use standard curves or get a better ESC like a Jazz IMO.

The ESC is hunting after the power load is changed.
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09-06-2006 05:33 PM  14 years ago
caseyjholmes

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Portland, Oregon

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Check that your tail blades aren't too loose. Also check that there is no wiggle in your pushrod connection to the tail servo. (install a ball link here instead of the metal Z-bend!) Then disconnect the tail pushrod from the tail pitch slider lever, and move it by hand to be sure there is NO binding whatsoever on the tail pitch slider assembly.
Next I would say to drop the gain till it wont wag anymore.
If that don't fix it, Check your tail servo gears, or put a longer tail servo horn on the tail servo and move the ball link out a hole (to start). Make sure the tail servo gears are well lubed as well. Something is sticking in your rig (if it isn't a shotty gov mode bringing you down)

Is it an SE tail or an XL or standard length?
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09-06-2006 06:31 PM  14 years ago
BANDANA

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Rochelle, Illinois

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I'm in non-governer mode and running the Align ESC.
Ball link installed with CF rod to tail.

I will check gears and binding again.

It flew great circuits last night, just doesn't faster pirouettes.

Bandana
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09-07-2006 02:32 AM  14 years ago
ShellDude

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East Coventry, PA

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Is this the bird?

If so I'd recommend a bit more cushion between the frame and the gyro. Do you have any pictures of the tail?
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09-07-2006 03:28 AM  14 years ago
oopsididitagain

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Dubai

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what kind of material to cushion it? and heard a lot bad things if put the gyro on top. why didnt u guys put it on the bottom?
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09-07-2006 03:34 AM  14 years ago
ShellDude

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East Coventry, PA

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sheer laziness on my part as far as why mine still sits up top.

I used to use the Futaba tape that comes with Futaba gyros.

More recently I've been using some 3M tape... don't have the part number handy but I'd recommend two squares of it instead of just one.
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