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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Ideal Rotor RPM for Hover and Idle2
09-04-2006 09:07 AM  14 years ago
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Shiro Muji

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Japan

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Ideal Rotor RPM for Hover and Idle2
Hi, can you guys help me with this. . . what is the Ideal Rotor RPM for hovering and how about if you switch to Idle up 1 and 2? what gear ratio and blade size are you using when you are doing 3D with gas heli? thanks. any info will be appreciated. thanks again in advance.
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09-04-2006 01:33 PM  14 years ago
rbort

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Franklin, MA - USA

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My ideal settings
1500 to 1550 in normal mode for hover and low slow flight like pirouting, backwards and just putt putting around on the deck.

1600 to 1650 for idle up 1. This mode you can do all 3D maneuvers with power to spare. No bogging as you push the sticks in all directions.

1730 to 1780 in idle up 2. This is the fastest mode where things happen quicker otherwise its just like idleup1. The only difference is that you are running closer to full power so its easier to "bog" or have the rotor slow down in hard maneuvers. In other words if you are filming the machine with a camcorder you will see variations in rotor speed strobe during maneuvers whereas in idle up 1 it will look alot more steady.

Mine is set for 1550, 1650, 1750. I use the mid speed the most.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 2703D, 4400 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3460 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1995 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 923 flts
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09-04-2006 02:55 PM  14 years ago
Shiro Muji

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Thanks Rbort, by the way what's the gear ratio of your Gasser and what blade are you using? is it 710mm? i am using Hanson 3D Max 26CC by the way.
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09-04-2006 03:04 PM  14 years ago
rbort

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Franklin, MA - USA

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I have two
One is a 1005 gasser with a Hanson Pro 26 running 6.92 gear ratio with 720mm gamma blades, the other is a Spectra-g with a Hanson Pro Plus 26 running 7.15 gear ratio with SAB 710mm blades.

I use the same flight rpms on both.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 2703D, 4400 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3460 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1995 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 923 flts
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09-04-2006 03:11 PM  14 years ago
rcadd1ct

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Richardson, Texas

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What heli?

What style of flying?

I am using that engine on a P-Gas converted to a Condor.

I just found out 9.2:1 ratio was too high for the max head speed with 800mm blades (1500). Probably going to move to 8.8 ratio.

In normal I run a head speed just high enough to hover the heli without it bucking. This keeps me from flipping it upside down in Normal mode.

Idle 1 is currently 1400.

Idle 2 is currently 1500.
-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!
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09-04-2006 03:19 PM  14 years ago
Shiro Muji

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Japan

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thanks Rbort.

I am flying Maxum Heli, but the current gear ratio is 7.4:1 with 710mm Carbon blades. my engine is Hanson 3D Max 26cc. I just ask this because I want to maximize the power of the engine. I fly hard 3D with this engine but I feel that the engine can give more. so I am thinking of increasing the gear ratio. any suggestions?
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09-04-2006 04:13 PM  14 years ago
rcadd1ct

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Richardson, Texas

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Before the Condor upgrade I ran a 1900 head speed on a 7.07 ratio.

I was using 720mm rotor techs doing light 3D.

Clutch kept slipping, which sounds like a bog to the nitro trained person that I was.

After I upgraded the clutch and everything no more slipping and it has great climbout.

What is the recommended max RPM for that heli with those blades?

What is the blade bolt diameter?
-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!
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09-05-2006 04:39 AM  14 years ago
Shiro Muji

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Japan

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the Maximum Rotor RPM for this Heli is 1750 with 710mm blade. but I am thinking of using 700mm or 690mm blade instead. because with 710mm blade, the heli hovers at 3degrees pitch during mid-stick throttle.
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09-05-2006 04:51 AM  14 years ago
rcadd1ct

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Richardson, Texas

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I would set it for 1700 head speed and look at changing the gear ratio to load the engine better.

Not sure what ratios are available for that heli.
-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!
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09-05-2006 05:24 AM  14 years ago
Shiro Muji

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by the way the bolt of the blade grip is 4mm.
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09-05-2006 05:52 AM  14 years ago
rcadd1ct

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Richardson, Texas

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From the look of the heli I would have thought it would allow a higher head speed.

I have swung SAB 680's at almost 2k on my drag heli with the same size blade bolts.
-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!
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09-06-2006 03:11 AM  14 years ago
JWatson

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Mustang, OK

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rcadd1ct,

1900 Rpm at a gear ratio of 7.07= 13,344???

holy crap!!! I didnt know Zenoahs could run that high!!!


I bet if flew like a battoutta hell!

Later,

Jarrett W.
Jarrett Watson
http://jarrettrc.wordpress.com/
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09-06-2006 03:28 AM  14 years ago
rcadd1ct

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Richardson, Texas

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Looks like Hanson took the spec's down.

Hanson had it spec'd with max HP @ 17k rpms.

Look at the specs on these engines:
http://www.bhhanson.com/Marine%20En...duct%20Line.htm

It didn't really sound that much different than when it had the stock SE ratio in it.

It flew pretty good, though.
-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!
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09-06-2006 03:53 AM  14 years ago
Dr. Fibinotchi

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Sioux Falls SD

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gears and engine.
Ron at Ircha flew his head over 2k with his gasser with no problem.

I am at 6.785 at 1910 on the gov. The hanson max has a ton of torque, BUT it doesnt recover well if you botch your collective and cyclic on a manuver. I want to goto a 7.08'ish but Min air doesnt have anything to do in with the 1005. Could goto a 6.92, BUT not sure if this would help much at all. I can almost do tick tocks but the Sab's I learned from seeing things this week are not as good as a buddie that has radix for the 'snap' Even on a gasser loaded is should snap more.

The other major issue I am struggling with is getting the recovery time on the engine. The hanson engine has a somewhat linear power output making overloading the engine with pitch BAD. Better gears and clutch seems to be the only way to stay near max output power of the engine 13k...? Is 6.92 going to be dramatically better than 6.785? Would 7ish fix this?

Another one do you load 10% above max rpm on engine so it loads into the peak power like nitros?

Hanson told me peak power was 13k on the max engine. I cant imagine going to even higher gears above 7's


Shiro when you punch ( full power climbout) with 710's with the same engine I have at 1720 rotor rpm I bet you can run 12 degrees almost in collective as I can. The engine runs away. Put your rpm so your engine is at 13.3k and punch it which would be my rpm on my rotor. Can you pull above 9 degrees? Thats what I am pulling. Let me know if you have dramtically more power near 13.3k with your gears? Very interested.

If I can use another helis gears to get to make the engine run better I will. Dont see in spending 500 or more to convert my 1005 to a spectra. Someone chime in or pm me if you know something I dont...


hmm
issues.
-Cody
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
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09-06-2006 04:22 AM  14 years ago
rcadd1ct

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Richardson, Texas

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From what I have been told the bog is more of a clutch slipping issue. As the clutch slips the load is removed from the engine and it will start to get unhappy. This sounds like a bog, but it really is not.-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!
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09-06-2006 01:11 PM  14 years ago
Dr. Fibinotchi

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Sioux Falls SD

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yea
I had heard that a couple times in flight, but I thought that sound is the opposite of what I see. The clutch would slip and you would hear the engine speed up? I am talking about when giving it too much pitch on any heli and then zero- pitch it for a second to regain your head speed. I know the sound of it grunting but taking it.
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
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09-06-2006 01:52 PM  14 years ago
rcadd1ct

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Richardson, Texas

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I was hoping Bill or someone else would chime in here.

I am going by what I understand and not sure it is fact so please take with a grain of salt.

When you drop to zero pitch to recover, we are taking the load off the engine. These engines need load to produce torque. As you power back in the clutch will slip and again you are not loading the engine correctly. We hear the engine changing tune. As the load is removed the tone changes from the deep grunt to a higher tone.

This is similar to us revving a car at a standstill. It will rev, but the tone is not as low. Now accelerate up a hill, under load the tone is deeper, but you are revving it the same way.

I think I got it right. James, Bill care to add anything or correct me?
-RCA .......... Making Cuisinarts Fly!!!!!!!
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09-06-2006 03:39 PM  14 years ago
Shiro Muji

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Japan

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Dr Fibinotchi,
<< "Another one, do you load 10% above max rpm on engine so it loads into the peak power like nitros?" >>
<< "...Put your rpm so your engine is at 13.3k and punch it which would be my rpm on my rotor. Can you pull above 9 degrees? Thats what I am pulling. Let me know if you have dramtically more power near 13.3k with your gears? Very interested." >>

Answer: My Hanson spec sheet says 16000rpm as the 'max-power-output' rpm of 3DMax engine. Im normally running 13000rpm right now and already (with 710mm blades at 1750rpm peak) my hovering pitch is a little less than 3degrees.
I've also tried 14000rpm but the heli is beginning to feel sluggish due to higher moment of inertia of the blades spinning at 1900rpm. In both cases,the climb-out is almost like nitros but I couldnt go beyond 9 degrees to get more coz the engine begins to bog.
On the other hand, I've tried shorter blades like 690mm and found out it increased the hovering pitch to a little less than 4degrees and reduced the effects of inertia but climb-out suffers. This is why I'm planning on changing the gear ratio hoping to harness the peak power to go beyond 9 degrees for faster, sustainable, bog-less climb-out and improving agility in the process. I just hope this theory is correct.
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09-06-2006 04:10 PM  14 years ago
rbort

rrProfessor

Franklin, MA - USA

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Stupid question
But maybe your pitch guage is incorrect and in fact you are hovering at 5 degrees not 3 and climbout at 11 degrees where the engine starts to bog? What pitch guage are you using and maybe try another? I use the Robart "jeweled" needle movement guage.

-=>Raja.
MA 1005 Hanson 2703D, 4400 flts
Spectra 27 3DMax, 3460 flts
Whiplash V1-2 Hanson 300, 1995 flts
Whiplash V2 Hanson 300, 923 flts
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09-07-2006 12:32 AM  14 years ago
Dr. Fibinotchi

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Sioux Falls SD

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hmmm
"When you drop to zero pitch to recover, we are taking the load off the engine. These engines need load to produce torque. As you power back in the clutch will slip and again you are not loading the engine correctly. We hear the engine changing tune. As the load is removed the tone changes from the deep grunt to a higher tone. "

I dont know about needing a load to produce torque.. I think if you put any load out on the disk at 13k it should do whatever the engine can do for its power output. I agree they like torque, but would at zero-pitch with my 6.785 it takes too long to regenerate back to governed rpm on the gv-1. If I had 8 gear ratio it sure would take less time to regen from loss of head speed from manuver or other...or would it?

I do agree the engines like resistance in flight. The magic bullet is what....

Shiro I think thats about all these engines can produce powerwise from 13k-16k. You have to remember the higher head speed will use more power with the same pitch so 9 is like 12degees at 1700 head speed. That is not so out of line. Its interesting your gears didnt help at all as I pull the same power on climbout with 6.785. Its all the clutch and the slippige..I think someone else has said this...

-Cody

-Cody
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion.
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