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Home✈️Aircraft🚁HelicopterGasser Model RC HelicoptersOther › Hirobo Freya with Webra 91 P5 Hi
09-04-2006 06:16 AM  14 years ago
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hiroboss

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Hirobo Freya with Webra 91 P5 Hi
I received my engine last week from Cyberheli and now in the process of installing the engine into my Freya.

Here's a lil bit info about the heli:
10T pinion and 95T main
3cell Li-Po and 5v UBEC
2 JR digital servo for aileron and elevator
1 Hitec digital ultra torque servo for pitch
GY401 and S9253 combo for tail
690mm main blades
710mm Radix main(yet to install)
95mm Radix tail

I know the gearing is a bit high as it was intended for .70's but I'm ordering 12T later to get the ratio down to 7.9. I have a piece of Muscle Pipe II 80/90 that I planned to be used with the Webra.

I'll post more photos as the building process progresses. I'm currently thinking where to mount the ignition box.

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09-04-2006 07:41 PM  14 years ago
Harris

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Cyprus

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Which Freya do you have? Looks like the Evo 90.

Harris
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09-05-2006 03:31 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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Sorry I forgot to mention this. The heli just got 5 tanks with the previous owner. I'm sure that the manual didn't state it was an Evo90 but one thing I'm sure is that the pinion and main gear are 12T and 95T respectively. So, I can't really say it was a 90.

Well, as the building goes, I manage to run the Tygon tubing last nite while the wife is sleeping and I came to this problem. The Tygon tube has a thicker wall than normal silicone tube, so in the tank, the tube is not as flexible as I expect it to be. Isn't this gonna cause the fuel to be intermittent?

As stated in Webra manual, this engine should be taken as a sport engine and not 3D and that's is what this Freya going to be. But in certain light manuever, does the fuel supply going to be interrupted if the fuel line in the tank is not flexible enough? How do I solve this problem?
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09-06-2006 03:08 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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Cooling shroud
Hi guys,
Last nite I made myself a cooling shroud made from aluminum (or zink) sheet. It came out really nice and provide good clearance between the head and the shroud. I'll post the dimension later in my gallery. I have lotsa pictures but couldn't upload it till next monday.. Here's some fastphotos of my cooling shroud.

I plan to start the engine soon to see if there's any problem with it since there's a lot discussion made on its credibility on another topic. Wish me luck...

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09-06-2006 10:28 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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Guys,

How do I turn the ignition off and on remotely? Any suggestion?

more fastphotos of my freya in progress..

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09-07-2006 10:59 AM  14 years ago
Harris

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hiroboss,

Inside the tank you can use a Hayes Fuel Line #249. It is from neoprene. It is very flexible and can be used with all glow, gas and diesel fuels. It is certainly one of the best for high nitro.

Why would you want to turn the ignition on/off remotely? Are you planning to practice engine-off autos? I would just use a good quality mechanical switch like the heavy duty receiver ones from JR or Futaba.

Your heli is probably the 60-70 version of the Hirobo Freya Evolution. Which manufacturer part number is it? This should be printed on the first page of your manual.

Keep us posted about your progress. I am very keen on this engine but have been a little frustrated with some people having all sorts of problems with it.

Harris
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09-13-2006 03:46 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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Why would you want to turn the ignition on/off remotely? Are you planning to practice engine-off autos?
No, I'm just being careful with this engine. Who knows, this engine might rev up like crazy and I could never turn the ignition off remotely. I need to find a way to cut the engine off, at least cutting the power supply to the engine.
Your heli is probably the 60-70 version of the Hirobo Freya Evolution
I agree with you, but I forgot to look for the part number. Maybe some other time. My 12T bell is on its way now..so, thw ratio will go down to 7.9 from 9.5 currently.

My last fun fly (Sunday) was a mix of frustration, excitement and fun. Since I knew what to expect from this engine, the dissappointment is more acceptable. Just need to find a way to get out of it.

After starting the engine, the engine idle nicely and with little adjusment to the idling needle, I manage to get the heli in the air for about 3-5 mins. Soon after that, the engine starts to bogged down and overheated, as expected. Since I knew heat is going to be a problem, I already made a cooling shroud for it. This helped a lot. I'll give a temp reading soon, my temp gun is on its way to me.

As me and my buddies try to get the heli back in the air, we had trouble starting it. I found out that there're bubbles building up from the carburator into the fuel line. I guess the fuel just vaporized when it reach the hot carburator and this prevents the engine to start. I had to plug the muffler outlet to force the fuel to go in and crank the engine to get it started. It starts, but it died soon afterwards. I guess this is why Webra suggest to let the engine cool down a bit before start it again. But who wanna sit back for 10-15mins just to start the engine again to have fun for only 5mins??? That's nuts!

So I went back thingking of what can I do to make this work. Still thinking until now.. Here's some images of my spark plug for you guys to comment on.


A picture of the piston. From the look of it, I think it's OK.


What does this tells you. Any comment? Sorry the picture is a bit blurry. I'm not really good with cameras.


My eyes told me that the liner is OK. No scratch whatsoever..

I'm curious..just how long do we break in this engine?
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09-13-2006 07:23 PM  14 years ago
Harris

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You can use MERS or a similar electronic remotely controlled switch. However, do careful range checks with the engine off and then on because it may introduce interference from the ignition circuit to your receiver and gyro.

Looks like some sort of thermal insulation is required between the engine and the carb. Would a gasket do?

Harris
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09-14-2006 04:07 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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Thanks for the e-switch suggestion. Some e-switch provide isolation by using opto electronics (if I get this right). I have yet to check the link. I'll do that after I finished typing all this.

I really doubt that will solve the problem because the heat is going to be transfered via wave anyway. But out of curiousity, in what way do suggest to apply the gasket?

Last nite I came across this idea. It is a temporary solution (before I get my Perry VP40SG) but I'll give it a try first. I place a check valve close to the carburator to prevent the fuel travelling back to the tank. I know the fuel will still evaporate but I'm trying to minimize it. We'll see how it turn out later..

Installing the pump later will be a breeze since Webra provides a way to do that by replacing an M3 screw at the backplate. All that I need to do then, is to install a nipple to it.
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09-14-2006 02:26 PM  14 years ago
Eury

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Dover NH USA

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For a kill switch, we use these:

http://www.smart-fly.com/Products/Ignition/ignition.htm

In the large scale gas planes. Works great, and it's optically isolated. I've seen a plane saved because the mounting bolts on the engine backed out and the engine moved forward and lost all throttle control. The optical kill shut it off with the flip of a switch. It also has the advantage of not letting you start the engine with the RX off, and if you have a total power failure on the RX side of things, it'll kill the engine. Nice safety features.
Nick Crego

Citizen #0168
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09-14-2006 05:20 PM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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I'm a happy man!!
Thanks Nick for your suggestion. Appreciate that. I got some updates I'd like to share here.
During last fun fly, my instructor 'helped' me to get my Freya into the air. He played with the needles so much and I end up going home with mixed emotions. I knew he's not doing it correctly and too cockey to read the manual when I offered him. I learned something from that.
I went back and reset the needles back to factory setting. I also placed a check valve near the carb. I had a chance to fly this evening and I did.
I start the engine with the throttle open 20% and block the muffler with my finger to accelerate the fuel to the carb. I did this until there's no air in the fuel line and sure some of the fuel entered the case. Then I turned on the ignition and crank it. It starts EASILY and idles roughly (I assumed this is because of the engine still cold) and died. I repeat this step a couple of times until one time it idles quiet nicely. I didn't adjust the needles just to get it runs. I think it needs some time to warm up..
Just as I get a stable idling, I revved the throttle slowly until it hovered 2 feet from the ground. In the air, there's no sign that the engine is struggling or screaming. It runs smoothly and very little smoke is visible. I brought it up and land it several times until one time the engine suddenly stop working after 10min of runtime. Lucky I was less than a feet above the ground.
Everything is OK, except for the line inside the tank came loose. It kinda expanded. Checked the spark plug and it was dark tan. I take it as a good mixture ignited in there.
Later, I'll post a proof of how good my cooling is. The heli left its marks on the ground where it hovered 3inch from it.
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09-15-2006 03:59 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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The marks on the ground..

My Freya after the flight.

As I disassembling my tank, the black rubber plug split into pieces. It expands so much that I couldn't even take it out the tank opening. I think it expanded in result of leaving the gas 1/3 in the tank. I should have drained the it..

So, I'll look for a replacement tank real soon and really can't wait to get it back in the air.


Iwan
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09-18-2006 04:18 AM  14 years ago
Trung_Le

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Hanoi, Vietnam

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How is vibration in compare with nitro engine?
Do you have to change engine mount? or the engine comes with mount.
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09-26-2006 09:31 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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vibration is unavoidable..but can be minimized in some way. when the engine is not warm enough, sometime it couldn't even maintain a stable idling. But given time (and patience), it will finally fired up and idles nicely. So far, I have some screws coming off, most of them comes from the engine mount. To tell you the truth, I never applied thread lock on parts that I'll have to remove them from time to time.

In a Freya, the engine mounts fits nicely and doesn't need any mods to it. It a direct bolt on.

Latest update!
I receive my 12T gear and installed in my Freya. The ratio is down to 7.9 and I intend to keep it there. Test flights shows that the engine don't have to work too much compared to when I had my 10T installed. Previously, the engine gets easily overheated (about 162C). Now, with the 12T gear, my Freya hovers nicely. The climb out rate is unbelievable and very amazing. But I can still notice the engine bogged as it is being loaded, but not too significant, really minimal.

Plus I'd like to add, previously it was really hard to find a good spot on the needles and I had to keep turning them in and out (and reset it back to factory when I lost the count) and stay calm when I have to wait again for another 10min to let the engine cool down. It seems to me that I couldn't get the fuel supply right when past 50% throttle.

Thank god that last Sunday, I finally found the sweet spot on the engine ; still rich (very light visible smoke emitted from the muffler) but the engine didn't die when I revved it up and slowed it down. That should be a good sign right?

I haven't receive my Perry pump yet.
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09-26-2006 03:47 PM  14 years ago
asong26

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VA

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I hope you'll have better experience with the engine / starter than FixIt and Flying Tivo.
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09-27-2006 02:23 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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Thanks..I certainly hope so. I also follow that thread closely. I second an opinion made by someone there that the engine should be run in and tune on an engine stand with a prop on it rather than directly installed it and tune in a helicopter. It is said in the manual that the engine is not possible to be tuned only after it was properly run in.

And after spending hours on this engine in my Freya, I conclude that the Ultramix carburetor is a really bad design (though it still works :cool. It is too sensitive and newbies like me will find it hard to make it work and others eventually gave up.

A gas engine always runs hot..no doubt bout that. But NO OTHER manufacturer uses glow-like carb like Webra does. Webra should have employed Zama's or Walbro's in this engine. I have to admit, the G90 is not heli-friendly as well, but BME made it work like a champ.

C'mon guys, let's not quit yet. Slap Webra if you want to, but we have a passion to carry forward.
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09-30-2006 11:45 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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New update!
On Friday afternoon, I had a good time with my Freya. Fill the tank 4/5 and crank it up. Once the fuel reach the carb, it starts right up. It idles just right and I let the engine warm up. When I tried to lift it up, it sounds like its going to die. It's weird since the last time I flew it, I didn't adjust the needles whatsoever. The fuel becomes too rich..

However, I had to make small adjustment to the needles to make it work. I had a very long successful flight that evening. Towards 1/5 of the tank, suddenly the response become so good. The smoke dissappears and it was all okay. After about another 2mins, the engine started to scream.

After today's flight, all that I can say is, the fuel is too rich when the tank is almost full and become leaner at the end of flight. Just like a glow engine right?
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09-30-2006 12:03 PM  14 years ago
Harris

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Cyprus

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Maybe the regulator IS needed after all!

Did you get it with the engine?

Harris
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10-01-2006 03:35 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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No, I didn't get the regulator..not even the magic pipe! I wanted to try a different route. But I already ordered a new gasoline Perry pump..

I wanted to capture some videos but there's no one there but me. I'm sure you guys want to see mine in the air after all the postings here.
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10-02-2006 11:01 AM  14 years ago
hiroboss

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It's making sense now. All this while, I usually fly my heli with the fuel 2/5 or 1/5. That's why it was too rich when I filled the tank 4/5 and my Perry pump hasn't show up yet!

My strategy now is to break in the engine first. Hopefully, by then, I'm hoping that there's no engine part breaking up.

I have yet to explore the engine's real potential but honestly, I think it will do the job.
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